--- Log opened Mon Nov 02 00:00:04 2020 00:27 -!- liberliver [~Thunderbi@144.49.211.130.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #c-lightning 01:00 < HelloShitty> Hello. When a channel is closed (after around 2 days in the state of CLOSING), where does my stats goes? I can't see them in my wallet (Spark-Wallet connected to my node)? 01:17 <@cdecker> HelloShitty: the funds from the channel will end up being listed under `listfunds` (they should be as soon as the close initiates so they might have already been listed there when you first checked) 01:17 <@cdecker> That is unless you provided a `close_to` when opening the channel, in which case the funds end up at the specified address 01:22 < HelloShitty> No, I haven't provided a close_to argument 01:23 < HelloShitty> I still haven't understand the numbers in the listfunds command 01:23 < HelloShitty> This channel was 50k sats of outbound capacity 01:24 < HelloShitty> and I closed it around friday late night or saturday morning 01:24 <@cdecker> I can walk you through it if you share the short_channel_id or the funding txid 01:24 < HelloShitty> and the channel is closed now, ONCHAIN state 01:24 < HelloShitty> but the 50k sats aren't showing up in Spark-wallet 01:24 < HelloShitty> I will shre, just a second 01:25 < HelloShitty> cdecker: short channel ID: "653886x1552x1" 01:26 <@cdecker> Hm, looks like blockstream.info is currently having some hiccups :-s 01:27 <@cdecker> Ok, that channel was funded with this transaction: https://blockstream.info/tx/ec56e2281e4801ab1e4fcb8e5bdad704c366d290369da0b029a602cc4117ed79 01:27 <@cdecker> Output 1 being the interesting one here 01:27 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has left #c-lightning [] 01:27 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has joined #c-lightning 01:28 < HelloShitty> I get an error trying to open that link 01:28 <@cdecker> It was closed by transaction https://blockstream.info/tx/f155be1e7406ab47aa7fc1ca31b74a9cd8c2d3be26a1e3d53b70d54ba00e8725?input:0 (input 0 spends the channel outpoint) 01:28 <@cdecker> Yeah, blockstream.info is having some issues, reloading a couple of times works though 01:28 < HelloShitty> ok, I can use another explorer 01:29 < HelloShitty> I have opened this channel to a friend of mine with 50k sats 01:30 <@cdecker> Yep, so the close has 49 confirmations, so the funds should show up in `listfunds` 01:30 <@cdecker> If you do `lightning-cli listfunds` you get a result with two parts (channels and outputs), since these are on-chain funds we need to look into outputs 01:30 < HelloShitty> yes, that's what I'm looking at right now 01:32 <@cdecker> You should have an entry in the outputs list that looks something like this: {"txid: "f155be1e7406ab47aa7fc1ca31b74a9cd8c2d3be26a1e3d53b70d54ba00e8725", "output": 0, "value": 24325, ...} 01:32 <@cdecker> That's the funds returning to your wallet 01:32 < HelloShitty> and, btw, it's the other way around, I guess, listfunds, returns a JSON object with first the outputs, and then the channels 01:33 <@cdecker> You're right, but it's a dict, in which the order isn't important 01:33 < HelloShitty> indeed, good point 01:33 < HelloShitty> :) 01:33 <@cdecker> ^^ 01:34 < HelloShitty> however, I don't see these 50k sats as being returned to my wallet 01:34 <@cdecker> Yeah, it's 24k sats, since the close eats a part of the amount in on-chain fees 01:34 < HelloShitty> and by this I mean, the total amount I sent to the lightning address to be able to open channels was about 270k sats when I started 01:34 < HelloShitty> then I openend a few chanels and experimented here and there 01:35 <@cdecker> Yep, fees are really painful atm 01:35 < HelloShitty> at this point I have available around 111k sats 01:35 < HelloShitty> so, shouldn't I have aroun 160k sats instead 01:35 < HelloShitty> ahh, fees 01:35 <@cdecker> Opening fewer larger channels reduces the impact of the fees 01:36 < HelloShitty> so, even if it was 24k sats, I think I should have now aroun 111k + 24k = 135k sats 01:36 < HelloShitty> but I don't have that amount 01:36 < HelloShitty> I have the same 111k sats I had before closing the channel, iirc 01:36 <@cdecker> But you have that 24k sats in the listfunds output, don't you? 01:37 <@cdecker> And remember that opening channels costs on-chain fees as well 01:37 < HelloShitty> no, the only output there is aroun 35k sats 01:37 <@cdecker> Whoops 01:37 < HelloShitty> but it's sitting there for quite some time now 01:37 < HelloShitty> but let me double check 01:38 <@cdecker> Hm, I assume you didn't send the entire balance to your peer for that channel, in which case they would own the funds 01:38 < HelloShitty> cdecker: this is my last run of listfunds, a few seconds ago: https://paste.debian.net/1169611/ 01:39 < HelloShitty> Can you please explain what you just told me? 01:39 < HelloShitty> Di I make some mistake? 01:40 < HelloShitty> I created a new address using lightning-cli newaddr command, then I sent there about 20€ (that was about 270k sats) 01:41 < HelloShitty> then I opened a few channels, including this one 01:41 < HelloShitty> now I closed this channel because my friend's node is haveing some problems and it went offline for somtime 01:42 <@cdecker> I mean did you pay anyone with the node? That'd move the balance in favor of your peer and he'd own the funds in the channel if you transfer enough 01:43 < HelloShitty> yes, I have sent some sats for 1 friend of mine, 100 sats to be more specific, and I also sent a few thousands sats to another wallet of mine that I haveinstalled on my phone 01:43 <@cdecker> Oh, I see what's going on here 01:43 <@cdecker> The channel is stil in state "ONCHAIN" (should've paid more attention when you first told me) 01:44 < HelloShitty> yes, ONCHAIN 01:44 <@cdecker> That means that you closed unilaterally (which you also told me, and I didn't listen, sorry) 01:44 <@cdecker> Ok, in that case we're in the unilateral close phase, during which our counterparty has the chance of objecting if we misbeahved 01:45 < HelloShitty> well, I didn't say I closed unilateraly because I still don't know exactly how that happens. I clicked in the button "Close cahnnel" in Spark-Wallet, to be more specific 01:45 <@cdecker> That comes in the form of a timeout that needs to expire before we get the funds back 01:45 < HelloShitty> ok, I know all that in theory 01:45 < HelloShitty> lol 01:45 < HelloShitty> but not in practice 01:45 <@cdecker> So it all comes down to waiting for that timeout to expire, at which point c-lightning will claim the funds by sending them back to our internal wallet 01:46 < HelloShitty> It's the first time I did this "Close Channel" action. My friend's node is offline due to some problems in his raspberry unit 01:46 <@cdecker> Can't tell you what the timeout is, but `lightning-cli listpeers` should tell you for that channel 01:46 < HelloShitty> Shouldn't that time frame be about 2 days? 01:46 < HelloShitty> someone told me to check the close command help and so I did 01:46 <@cdecker> Depends on implementations participating in the channel and the settings configured by the operators 01:47 < HelloShitty> and I think I read somewhere it would be 2 days 01:47 < HelloShitty> ahh, ok, I see 01:47 < HelloShitty> My friend is using LND 01:47 <@cdecker> That assumes that the close transaction is confirmed immediately 01:47 < HelloShitty> So, so far everything is still fine and I just need to wait some more time, yes? 01:48 <@cdecker> The timeout only starts to count down once the close has been confirmed, so if the 2 days are what is configured, you have 50 confirmations, and need 288 01:48 <@cdecker> So it's just about waiting for that timeout to expire 01:48 <@cdecker> Yep, exactly 01:48 < HelloShitty> hum, ok 01:48 < HelloShitty> So, what is happening since the time I click "Close Channel" until I get the state ONCHAIN in my channel? 01:48 <@cdecker> The good news is that once you get the first confirmation it's way more predictable 01:49 <@cdecker> Close channel creates and broadcasts the close transaction (well it first tries to contact the peer for some time to create a collaborative close) 01:49 <@cdecker> Once the transaction is broadcast we have to wait for it to be confirmed 01:50 <@cdecker> Once the transaction is confirmed we have to wait for the timeout to expire 01:50 < HelloShitty> ahh, ok 01:50 < HelloShitty> so, the first stage is to try to get a collaborative close 01:51 < HelloShitty> which couldn't be achived because my friendsd node was offline 01:51 <@cdecker> So it's 3 phases: 1) reach out to peer to arrange a collaborative close (timeout and revert to unilateral if peer is unreachable), 2) broadcast close tx and hope it confirms, 3) wait for timeout to expire 01:51 <@cdecker> Exactly 01:51 < HelloShitty> ok, your above line, says it all 01:51 <@cdecker> And the `close` command accepts an option telling it how long to try contacting the peer 01:52 <@cdecker> So there we have control over how long things can take, the second phase we have little control over: confirmations depend on fees attached, which is a very blunt instrument to target a specific confirmation time 01:52 < HelloShitty> hum, that's also good to know 01:53 <@cdecker> And the last phase is only partially in our control: our peer needs the timeout to be large enough to penalize us if we were to suddenly misbehave 01:53 < HelloShitty> I understand that 01:53 <@cdecker> That being said I expect the default timeout to decrease significantly as implementations stabilize, so that should be less of an issue in future 01:54 < HelloShitty> and it's sad that there will always be people to try to take advantages for bad purposes, unfortunately 01:55 < HelloShitty> And I would also like to say that, being the Lightning Network, quite complex in terms of technology, reading only the man pages and other's experiences and all the theoretical articles I've seen in the last month 01:55 < HelloShitty> it's not close to be enough to understand some of the underlying details 01:56 <@cdecker> Definitely 01:56 < HelloShitty> Many of the articles I've seen, only approaches the tech and the Lightning network with usueless Bob and Alice examples 01:57 <@cdecker> My hope is that we can work on two fronts: a) Simplify the protocol using advances like eltoo which makes the update mechanism easier, and b) hide much of the complexity from the user, by automating as much as possible 01:57 < HelloShitty> yes, that would be a smart approach 01:57 < HelloShitty> obviously, it's "easier said than done" 01:58 < HelloShitty> but time will tell. 01:58 < HelloShitty> I have another view, but this is just me. I don't feel the need to hide the complexity, I would rather blend myself with it and understand it and embrace it 01:58 < HelloShitty> I know this is probably not feasible for the majority of users 01:59 < HelloShitty> because most users want simplicity and that's understandable 01:59 < HelloShitty> but in my particular case, I love to see things happening in the background 01:59 <@cdecker> That might be alright for tech-savvy people like yourself, but try explaining the tech to people who have no interest in it, and just want to use it for their day to day lives 01:59 < HelloShitty> that's exactly that 02:00 < HelloShitty> most people wwant cheap and good 02:00 < HelloShitty> hope Lightning Network can achieve that for all and that it can enter the mainstream in a few years 02:00 <@cdecker> We'll always have the possibiility to dive deeper and get a better understanding of how things work, but making it usable for non-tech-savvy people should be our priority since that's the barrier to entry 02:00 <@cdecker> You and me both ^^ 02:01 < HelloShitty> I was hearing a podcast the other day with Mcormmack and Rusty 02:01 < HelloShitty> And he says that this is a long term committment 02:01 < HelloShitty> and it's true, most of the big things, takes decades to be able to be productive and ready to use 02:01 <@cdecker> Absolutely 02:02 < HelloShitty> yes, complexity is a barrier, a brick wall 02:02 < HelloShitty> same thing with ethereum system 02:02 < HelloShitty> and despite it is a very good ecosystem 02:02 < HelloShitty> it also comes at a cost 02:03 < HelloShitty> lot's of bugs, scams, and many products with 0 aplicability 02:03 <@cdecker> That's why we try to manage expectations by not overpromising (though others tend to do that in our name...) 02:03 < HelloShitty> Solidity itself is not a pretty programming language in my opinion 02:04 < HelloShitty> ahahah, indeed 02:04 < HelloShitty> Well, I'm happy I'm here and active devs are here too, speaking to the most mortal and common users like me 02:05 < HelloShitty> I love C programming but unfortunately I don't have the experience to be able to participate in most of the projects 02:05 < HelloShitty> that's why I chose c-lightning and not other implementations 02:06 <@cdecker> And I'm glad we have tech-savvy users that get their hands dirty trying these things out. It helps us improve, and it helps other people, seeing that there is a comunity that can help if there are any issues 02:08 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning 02:11 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild 02:25 < HelloShitty> indeed 02:25 < HelloShitty> I hope you guys keep the good work 02:26 < HelloShitty> there are way more experienced users here that contribute a lot more than me 02:26 < HelloShitty> but I'm happy there is at least one bug that was reported after I came here ask for help 02:27 < HelloShitty> The dust_limit and floor resever bug that was kindly and quickly fixed by darosior 02:27 < HelloShitty> was result of a small problem I was having while my friend trying to open a channel with me 02:27 < HelloShitty> the same friend as I asked about the returning funds earlier today 02:27 -!- kristapsk_ [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has quit [Quit: %bye%] 02:28 < HelloShitty> about the closing channel action 02:28 -!- cryptosoap [~cryptosoa@gateway/tor-sasl/cryptosoap] has joined #c-lightning 02:32 <@cdecker> Don't worry, everyone started somewhere, and we appreciate all contributions ^^ 02:42 < HelloShitty> :) 03:15 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40 < m-schmoock> darosior: done 03:51 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #c-lightning 04:11 < darosior> m-schmoock: thanks 04:12 < darosior> ack 04:13 < m-schmoock> I both dont have merve access to this repo, right? 04:13 < m-schmoock> -I *We 04:14 < m-schmoock> *merge 04:14 < darosior> Nope i don't 04:15 < m-schmoock> nvm, lets stress cdecker with so many nice PRs that he has enough of us :D 04:15 <@cdecker> Sounds like a plan, bring it on ^^ 04:15 < m-schmoock> but, t.b.h. plugins can empty wallets, so its a burden even in the plugin repo 04:15 < m-schmoock> mission accomplished 04:16 < m-schmoock> *accepted 04:16 < darosior> hehe 04:16 < m-schmoock> where is the IRC edit last message function? 06:07 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #c-lightning 06:15 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a84:e3c0:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:16 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2986:6787:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #c-lightning 06:24 -!- ctrlbreak [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24 -!- ctrlbreak [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has joined #c-lightning 06:26 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2986:6787:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:42 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44 -!- queip [~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus] has joined #c-lightning 07:06 -!- mrostecki [~mrostecki@gateway/tor-sasl/mrostecki] has joined #c-lightning 07:34 -!- ksedgwic [~ksedgwic@157-131-253-103.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #c-lightning 08:14 < m-schmoock> Finally normal winter time means todays meeting at 9pm in Germany 08:19 < m-schmoock> cdecker: is travis running cppcheck? 08:20 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-134.cust.tzulo.com] has joined #c-lightning 08:22 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2986:a022:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #c-lightning 08:28 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41 -!- az0re [~az0re@gateway/tor-sasl/az0re] has joined #c-lightning 09:07 <@niftynei> " The dust_limit and floor resever bug that was kindly and quickly fixed by darosior" *ahem* :P 09:27 <@cdecker> m-schmoock: yes, travis is running cppcheck for ElementsProject/lightning, but not really a recent version, so it might have some false positives and negatives 09:42 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has left #c-lightning [] 09:42 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has joined #c-lightning 09:50 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning 09:56 < HelloShitty> crap me 09:56 < HelloShitty> I'm sorry niftynei ... You were the oen fixing it and reporting... :\ 09:56 < HelloShitty> s/oen/one 10:04 < az0re> HelloShitty: You dropped this: / 10:04 < az0re> ;) 10:05 < az0re> See `man 1 sed` 10:07 < HelloShitty> I dropped an / ??? What you mean? 10:12 <@cdecker> The `s/old/new/` syntax commonly used to self-correct a prior message comes from the `sed` command-line tool (at leastI know it from there) 10:12 <@cdecker> He was just saying that the final delimiter is missing, but I think most of our human-brain parsers understood it correctly 10:13 <@cdecker> (would need to check if Zmn's non-human brain also parsed it correctly though) 10:25 < HelloShitty> ahhh ok 10:25 < HelloShitty> yes 10:36 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn222.91-127-240.t-com.sk] has joined #c-lightning 10:40 < HelloShitty> darosior: I opened a channel with you, right? IS you node online? My channel to you is offline 10:48 < jasan> Rusty's BLUEIRON node also seems to be down 10:49 < jasan> rusty, when you see the backlog ^^ 10:51 -!- liberliver [~Thunderbi@144.49.211.130.bc.googleusercontent.com] has quit [Quit: liberliver] 10:52 -!- sergei-t [~sergei@94.103.211.82] has joined #c-lightning 11:20 < jasan> also ark, if they see this backlog - node PEEVEDCHEF seems to be offline 11:28 -!- HelloShitty [~narayan@bl20-171-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29 -!- sergei-t [~sergei@94.103.211.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 11:51 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn222.91-127-240.t-com.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53 < rusty> Hi everyone! C-lightning dev meeting in 8 minutes at https://meet.jit.si/CLightning-Open-Meeting 11:53 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn222.91-127-240.t-com.sk] has joined #c-lightning 11:54 < rusty> hello Jasan! 11:54 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@static-77-88-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54 -!- sr_gi [~sr_gi@static-77-88-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net] has joined #c-lightning 11:57 -!- sergei-t [~sergei@94.103.211.82] has joined #c-lightning 11:59 < jasan> rusty: Hello! 11:59 < jasan> Hello Rusty :) 11:59 < rusty> jasan: https://meet.jit.si/CLightning-Open-Meeting 12:27 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:34 -!- HelloShitty [~narayan@bl20-171-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #c-lightning 12:36 < HelloShitty> jasan: my channel to Rusty is online 12:36 < HelloShitty> forget 12:36 < HelloShitty> It's offline 12:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:01 -!- sergei-t [~sergei@94.103.211.82] has left #c-lightning [] 13:04 < jasan> Yes. Still offline. 13:04 -!- jasan [~jasan@adsl-dyn222.91-127-240.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:16 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #c-lightning 14:05 -!- jonatack [~jon@213.152.161.101] has quit [Quit: jonatack] 14:08 -!- vasild_ [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has joined #c-lightning 14:09 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning 14:10 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has joined #c-lightning 14:11 -!- vasild [~vd@gateway/tor-sasl/vasild] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11 -!- vasild_ is now known as vasild 14:14 -!- ctrlbreak [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14 -!- ctrlbreak [~ctrlbreak@159.2.182.106] has joined #c-lightning 14:14 -!- jonatack [~jon@88.124.242.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:16 -!- jonatack [~jon@109.202.107.5] has joined #c-lightning 15:09 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #c-lightning 15:16 < rusty> m-schmoock: crap! I forgot to push the final patch in that series, which actually fixes the problem!!! 15:22 < rusty> m-schmoock: how do you feel about getting rid of all those single hooks? Or at least as many of them as possible... 15:43 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45 -!- k3tan [~pi@gateway/tor-sasl/k3tan] has joined #c-lightning 17:53 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning 18:00 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has left #c-lightning [] 18:00 -!- blockstream_bot [blockstrea@gateway/shell/sameroom/x-zzgbwiizjmpgirfq] has joined #c-lightning 18:17 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning 20:11 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25 -!- DeanWeen [~dean@gateway/tor-sasl/deanguss] has joined #c-lightning 20:32 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25 -!- ksedgwic [~ksedgwic@157-131-253-103.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27 -!- ksedgwic [~ksedgwic@157-131-253-103.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #c-lightning 22:40 -!- liberliver [~Thunderbi@144.49.211.130.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #c-lightning 23:37 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@static-198-54-132-134.cust.tzulo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] --- Log closed Tue Nov 03 00:00:05 2020