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01:57 -!- cdecker changed the topic of #c-lightning to: Next meeting here @8PM UTC Monday Jan 25  Chat about the C-lightning implementation: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning https://lists.ozlabs.org/listinfo/c-lightning  Current Version: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/releases/tag/v0.9.3 Logs at http://gnusha.org/c-lightning/ Dev Roadmap: https://github.com/ElementsProject/lightning/wiki
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12:51 < HelloShitty> m-schmoock: you around?
13:09 < HelloShitty> Anyone can help me using the rebalance plugin
13:09 < HelloShitty> I'm getting an error saaying the channel capacity is too low
13:10 < HelloShitty> but the amount I'm trying to use is smaller than any of the channels capacities
13:13 < HelloShitty> I have one channel needing rebalance and this channel total capacity is ~1.5million sats. This channel is now at around 9.58% Out and 90.42%
13:13 < HelloShitty> And I have one other channel which total capacity is ~990k sats, 100% Incoming capacity
13:14 < HelloShitty> So, I want to use this 990k sats channel to rebalance the other one
13:14 < HelloShitty> But I'm not understanding which channel should be considered and outgoing and incoming for the rebalance plugin
13:15 < HelloShitty> I mean, the channel needing rebalance is 90% Incoming. So I can't send anything out from it because it only has 9.5% outgoing capacity
13:16 < HelloShitty> but the other channel is 100% incoming capacity, so it cannot send anything out either
13:16 < HelloShitty> Maybe I can't use this channel, then
13:28 < HelloShitty> I just get an error message saying "Rebalance failed" but doesn't say why
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14:52 < nibbier> when connecting to a node, can I somehow dump the conversation? I'm asked for the init message I'm receiving in a specific connect
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15:22 < darosior> nibbier: use --log-level=io
15:24 < HelloShitty> darosior: are you familiar with rebalance.py plugin? Could you help me checking why the rebalance is failing?
15:32 < az0re> HelloShitty: Do you have enough spendable balance on that channel in `listpeers`?
15:34 < az0re> Just to make certain, you do understand that you will in any case not have much spendable balance on either channel?  You just don't have enough outgoing capacity on the first channel to really do much to balance either channel
15:35 < az0re> <HelloShitty> I just get an error message saying "Rebalance failed" but doesn't say why
15:35 < az0re> Check your c-lightning log/std(out|err)
15:35 < az0re> You will get status updates about rebalance payment attempts
15:36 < HelloShitty> my debug file already counts around 500Mb
15:36 < HelloShitty> I start lightnind as `lightningd &`
15:36 < HelloShitty> and then I tail -f to the debug file
15:37 < HelloShitty> I can see a few things but the log is too big to be able to get it all
15:37 < HelloShitty> I can paste online a few parts though
15:37 < az0re> no need
15:37 < az0re> it's just for you
15:37 < HelloShitty> I already tried to use more fees lie 0.6
15:37 < HelloShitty> s/lie/like
15:37 < az0re> 0.6 what?
15:38 < HelloShitty> the channel I want to rebalance, as I said, has total ~1.5 millions sats
15:38 < HelloShitty> maxfeeratepercent=0.5
15:38 < az0re> You will see lines like: "2021-01-21T23:19:41.355Z INFO    plugin-rebalance.py: Trying route: [{ ..."
15:38 < HelloShitty> default is 0.5
15:39 < HelloShitty> az0re: I can see this, for instance:
15:39 < HelloShitty> 2021-01-21T23:01:22.994Z DEBUG   plugin-rebalance.py: RpcError: RPC call failed: method: waitsendpay, payload: {'payment_hash': '70477a02716fded11a0c7ab
15:39 < az0re> I generally set that to 0.0 and use exemptfee
15:39 < HelloShitty> error: {'code': 204, 'message': 'failed: WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE (reply from remote)', 'data': {'id': 15, 'payment_hash': '70477a02716fde
15:40 < az0re> WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE means IIRC that the channel is up but has no capacity to route your payment
15:40 < HelloShitty> 'status': 'pending', 'erring_index': 2, 'failcode': 4103, 'failcodename': 'WIRE_TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE', 'erring_node': '023d70f2f76d283c6c4e5
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15:40 < HelloShitty> and I know there is also one line that says
15:41 < az0re> Anyway you didn't answer me: Do you have enough spendable balance on the outgoing channel?
15:41 < HelloShitty> payment 0/1 failed after attempting over 5 hops
15:41 < HelloShitty> or something like that
15:41 < HelloShitty> az0re: I have
15:41 < az0re> How much are you trying to rebalance?
15:41 < HelloShitty> but to contextualize let me explain it all
15:41 < az0re> approximately
15:41 < az0re> sounds like ~50ksat?
15:41 < HelloShitty> the channel needing rebalancing has total_amount: ~1.5 million sats
15:42 < HelloShitty> and is now at around 9% Out and 91% In
15:42 < az0re> Right, so ~90ksats are yours leaving you a spendable balance of around 50-70ksat
15:42 < az0re> right?
15:42 < HelloShitty> meaning ~135k sats Out and ~1.4 million sats In
15:42 < az0re> errr yeah 1.5 so multiply those numbers by 1.5
15:43 < HelloShitty> multiply by 1.5 ?
15:43 < HelloShitty> wait, let me explain it all
15:43 < HelloShitty> This is the command I'm using:
15:43 < HelloShitty> lightning-cli rebalance -k outgoing_scid=666334x1059x1 incoming_scid=665969x1380x0 msatoshi=400000000msat maxfeepercent=0.6 retry_for=300
15:43 < HelloShitty> I don't want a 50/50 channel
15:43 < az0re> OK you just leaked your node ID BTW
15:43 < HelloShitty> I want more on side than on the other
15:44 < HelloShitty> What is the problem?
15:44 < HelloShitty> Node ID is public, no?
15:44 < HelloShitty> 1ml knows it
15:44 < az0re> Sure but its association with your HelloShitty nick maybe was not
15:45 < az0re> well I see 2 problems
15:45 < HelloShitty> An where I leaked it?
15:45 < HelloShitty> s/An/And
15:45 < az0re> By pasting your SCIDs
15:45 < HelloShitty> ahh ok
15:45 < az0re> The first problem is that you're trying to rebalance 400ksat, which you don't have
15:45 < HelloShitty> if I paste here my node ID so that someone connects to it, it's the same thing
15:45 < az0re> Yup
15:46 < HelloShitty> What you mean I don't have 400k sats?
15:46 < az0re> > msatoshi=400000000msat
15:46 < HelloShitty> the channel I'm trying to use to rebalance has 990k sats I can send out
15:46 < az0re> I thought you said it was 990k of incoming capacity
15:46 < HelloShitty> ok, wait, let me say it all then
15:47 < az0re> Please run `lightning-cli listpeers | less`, and search (with the forward slash) for 666334x1059x1
15:47 < az0re> Then tell me the "spendable_msat" field for that JSON object
15:47 < HelloShitty> spendable for that chaannel is 135k sats but let me run the command you tol me
15:49 < HelloShitty> "spendable_msat": "741433317msat",
15:49 < az0re> OK so you have 741ksat spendable outgoing capacity on that channel
15:49 < HelloShitty> yes
15:49 < HelloShitty> I thought you were asking about the channel needing rebalancing
15:50 < HelloShitty> Can I paste something to your pvt?
15:50 < az0re> can you tell me "receivable_msat" for the JSON object corresponding to 665969x1380x0 ?
15:50 < az0re> Sure
15:50 < HelloShitty> Is part of the log regarding this procedure
15:51 < HelloShitty> I'll answer to the receivable_msat here in a second
15:51 < az0re> k
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15:55 < az0re> So I'll just say here what I believe your problems are, assuming you have enough receivable_msat on the incoming channel: 1) You're trying to rebalance 400ksats, which is rather a lot and in my experience often fails.  This especially if the incoming or outgoing channels are not well connected in the LN channel graph.  2) You set only a 5 minute timeout, which in my experience is way too short.  Something like 30 minutes or an hour is more 
15:55 < az0re> likely to succeed.
15:57 < az0re> I would suggest breaking the rebalance up into 2-4 parts of 100-200ksat, each with a timeout of 3600s
15:58 < HelloShitty> ok
15:58 < HelloShitty> I'll do that
15:58 < HelloShitty> answering to your quesiton above:
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15:59 < HelloShitty> "receivable_msat": "1409196480msat",
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15:59 < az0re> Yeah OK plenty of incoming capacity
15:59 < HelloShitty> yes, that's why I'm trying to rebalance it
15:59 < HelloShitty> because the outgoing is onlye 135k sats
15:59 < az0re> makes sense
16:00 < HelloShitty> I tried 100k sats before but with way less time that 1h
16:00 < az0re> it's really hit or miss
16:00 < az0re> sometimes I get a good route in less than a minute
16:00 < HelloShitty> will try 200k sats with 1h
16:00 < az0re> sometimes it fails after even an hour
16:00 < az0re> sometimes it succeeds after 50 minutes or so
16:01 < HelloShitty> ok,
16:01 < HelloShitty> one more thing
16:01 < HelloShitty> you said you use exemptfee instead, right?
16:01 < az0re> But I have the best luck keeping most rebalances to < 200ksat, because most LN channels are just not that big and my rebalances are ususally 7-10 hops long
16:02 < HelloShitty> So you suppress maxfeepercent an use only the exemptfee?
16:02 < az0re> yeah I set the fee rate to zero and use exemptfee directly to control exactly how much I'm willing to pay for the rebalance in msat
16:02 < HelloShitty> ok, I'll put less then
16:02 < HelloShitty> maybe 150k, because if I break it into many more smaller parts
16:02 < HelloShitty> I end up spending way more in fees than with collecting fees from forwarding
16:02 < az0re> You really do not need such a high fee rate and it could bite you by making you pay much more for rebalancing than you earn from routing
16:02 < az0re> Exactly
16:03 < HelloShitty> so you say that maxfeepercent=0.6 is a lot?
16:03 < HelloShitty> I started with 0.2
16:03 < az0re> Yes
16:03 < HelloShitty> then I tried to bump it by one notch
16:03 < HelloShitty> until I reached 0.6
16:03 < az0re> if you *need* to make that payment there might be capacity from LNBIG or some other super expensive router
16:03 < HelloShitty> 0.6 means rebalance_amount*(0.6/100), right?
16:04 < az0re> But if you're just trying to optimize channel capacities and eke out a small profit, definitely way too much
16:04 < az0re> yeah
16:04 < HelloShitty> ok
16:04 < nibbier> darosior: thanks
16:04 < HelloShitty> yeah, for now I'm just in that exploring phase
16:04 < HelloShitty> but I out quite a some money on the node as you can see
16:04 < HelloShitty> 1.5 million sats is still a bit
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16:05 < az0re> The tricky part is that you need to set your outgoing channel fee rates low enough to get forwards but high enough to profit after rebalancing that channel, which depends on other people's channel feerates and conditions within the LN
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16:05 < az0re> I think basically everyone who runs an LN node is out a little bit of money lol
16:05 < HelloShitty> yeah that gets quite awting to control
16:06 < HelloShitty> s/awting/dawnting
16:06 < az0re> I'm getting better about managing capacities and profitably forwarding payments but a single poorly timed unilateral close wipes out years of whatever meager profits I earn
16:06 < HelloShitty> This channel I opened was with the guys from Boltz which provides a service of submarine swaps
16:07 < HelloShitty> and they say they are forwarding between 50 to 300 payments a day
16:07 < az0re> You should probably crank up that channel fee
16:07 < HelloShitty> and they have the fees at the minimum, I guess
16:07 < HelloShitty> because their focus is not routing
16:07 < HelloShitty> yeah I already did
16:07 < az0re> Yeah they're a liquidity sink
16:07 < HelloShitty> but I was completely out of time
16:08 < HelloShitty> because I only did it after the channel outgoing capacity was completely drained by their side
16:08 < HelloShitty> lool
16:08 < az0re> lol
16:08 < az0re> that one's a freebie
16:08 < HelloShitty> so, now I set the fees for all channels as: base_fee=1000msat and ppm=250
16:08 < az0re> Sounds reasonable to me
16:08 < HelloShitty> yes, I'm still a newbie, as you can see by the question I ask here
16:09 < az0re> Hey, so am I
16:09 < HelloShitty> ohh come on... lol
16:09 < az0re> But I bet you can get away with a much higher fee for that Boltz channel
16:09 < HelloShitty> You're way more educated about LN generally and in detail than me
16:09 < az0re> Nah not really
16:09 < az0re> Just have more practice managing my node :)
16:09 < HelloShitty> I did my first reverse submarine swap, like a week ago
16:10 < HelloShitty> with Boltz
16:10 < HelloShitty> I have used backup plugin for the first time, like 2 weeks ago
16:10 < az0re> how many years of routing profits did you pay for it? :)
16:10 < HelloShitty> I'm using rebalance plugin for the first time today
16:10 < HelloShitty> for the reverse submarine swap?
16:10 < az0re> ya
16:11 < HelloShitty> I paid like 4€, I guess
16:11 < az0re> ouch
16:11 < HelloShitty> and because I set the fee manually and the channel took more than 12h hours to lock
16:11 < HelloShitty> wait, the 4€ was to open the channel
16:12 < HelloShitty> network fee
16:12 < az0re> Better set that Boltz channel feerate_ppm to 1000 and start making it up lol
16:12 < HelloShitty> You think?
16:12 < HelloShitty> 1000 won't be too much?
16:12 < az0re> Yeah or maybe even higher
16:12 < az0re> LNBIG runs at 7000 IIRC
16:12 < HelloShitty> I can try 500 to test, **after** I get the rebalance working
16:13 < HelloShitty> jeezzz
16:13 < HelloShitty> I see in 1ml they have quite big fees
16:13 < az0re> For Boltz specifically who has an effectively unlimited demand for incoming capacity I think you can do something like that
16:13 < HelloShitty> ok
16:13 < HelloShitty> Let me just make the rebalance happen and I'll change the fees for that channel, for sure
16:14 < HelloShitty> for now, for the rebalancing, I'll try the maxfeepercent=0.2
16:14 < HelloShitty> to see what happens
16:14 < az0re> Sure
16:14 < HelloShitty> and tomorrow morning I'll check if it failed or not
16:14 < HelloShitty> because it's late here
16:14 < HelloShitty> and in 1h time, I want to be already at my 2nd sleep
16:14 < HelloShitty> :p
16:14 < az0re> :)
16:14 < az0re> good night
16:15 < HelloShitty> az0re: thank you for helping
16:15 < HelloShitty> I didn't know these rebalance could need so much time to complete a rebalance. When I see the default is 60 seconds
16:15 < HelloShitty> I never think about to turn it into 3600
16:15 < az0re> np
16:16 < az0re> yeah I dunno WTF they're thinking with 60s
16:16 < HelloShitty> Let's see what happens
16:16 < az0re> Very rarely will I get something in less than that
16:16 < HelloShitty> Tomorrow I'll check
16:16 < az0re> sounds good
16:16 < HelloShitty> thanks and see you tomorrow
16:16 < az0re> ciao
16:16 < HelloShitty> o/
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20:04 <@niftynei> hm. i have an integration test that works when valgrind is off (VALGRIND=0); but when i set VALGRIND=1 it crashes. no stack trace though because VALGRIND is on
20:04 <@niftynei> any hints of places to look for problems?
20:05 -!- rh0nj [~rh0nj@88.99.167.175] has joined #c-lightning
20:08 <@niftynei> this seems promising. hmm "Log dumped in crash.log.20210122040449"
20:08 <@niftynei> how do i read a crash.log.* lol
20:14 <@niftynei> nevermind, it's the same as the node logs 
20:15 <@niftynei> works fine with ASAN=1 VALGRIND=0 
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 22 00:00:22 2021