--- Log opened Thu May 13 00:00:53 2021
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02:52 < jasan> Please have a look at my YAELBOT channel proposal at https://github.com/jsarenik/L2-zoology/blob/jasan/lightning_yaelbot/protocols/lightning-yaelbot.md
02:53 < jasan> Actually, it is already a PR to the upstream: https://github.com/ariard/L2-zoology/pull/7
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05:32 < fiatjaf> jasan: have you seen this? https://prunednode.today/
05:33 < jasan> fiatjaf: Yes.
05:33 < jasan> I actually spoke to the author.
05:34 < fiatjaf> jasan: and what did he say?
05:35 < jasan> fiatjaf I did this in connection with it  https://github.com/jsarenik/deobfuscation and mirrored (for fun on IPFS) a torrent of the prunednode.today at https://prunednode.bublina.eu.org/
05:36 < jasan> (for fun because I actually do not run any IPFS nodes and do not do anything with it, but I played with it back then and it hangs on free service, so I think it is good to have a Bitcoin fingerprint on such a network)
05:39 < fiatjaf> jasan: that's good
05:39 < fiatjaf> I've sent this tweet to try to get him to reply to me but he didn't: https://twitter.com/fiatjaf/status/1391433166024585218
05:40 < jasan> fiatjaf: so thanks to `chainstate` I found a way to prove the chainstate is in the same state (something like to compare checksums, which one can not do because of obfuscation)
05:40 < fiatjaf> so your deobfuscation tool works? can I deobfuscate a chainstate and still use it on my bitcoind?
05:40 < fiatjaf> what about the raw blocks files?
05:40 < fiatjaf> indeed, verifying if the chainstate is the same is already a very important thing
05:40 < jasan> fiatjaf: those are not obfuscated (raw blocks)
05:41 < fiatjaf> now I can download the chainstate from prunednode.today, check if it matches the chainstate I have from my own bitcoind and if it's ok I can also sign it on the website
05:41 < fiatjaf> right?
05:41 < jasan> fiatjaf: there are a couple of unrelated things mixed up in what I was proving by that "deobfuscation" repo.
05:41 < fiatjaf> jasan: the blocks are not obfuscated, but their order is always the same?
05:42 < jasan> fiatjaf: raw block files are all the same, the only problem is that raw block files may contain blocks which did not continue
05:42 < jasan> fiatjaf: their order is the same only when you linearize them
05:42 < jasan> that was the point of my experiments
05:43 < jasan> and then I found the only thing which was still not the same and that was the obfuscated chainstate
05:43 < jasan> see https://github.com/jsarenik/deobfuscation/blob/master/_test/runtest.sh
05:43 < jasan> that is a minimal example (how they call it MVP ;)
05:44 < fiatjaf> not sure I get what it does
05:44 < fiatjaf> but someday I'll explore this idea more
05:45 < fiatjaf> I guess once I get a better computer such that messing up my chainstate won't cause me to be without a bitcoind for a month
05:45 < fiatjaf> my intention is to make a website with a chainstate and the full blocks available for people to download
05:45 < fiatjaf> over torrent
05:46 < fiatjaf> and a way such that other people can run something on their machines with their own nodes that verifies what I have in the website
05:46 < fiatjaf> and then sign that too
05:47 < jasan> fiatjaf: the minimal example can be run without touching your chainstate
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06:44 < darosior> fiatjaf: Stepan Snigrev runs such a service iirc. Also, assumeutxo would make this obsolete?
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06:51 < jasan> darosior: Yes, assumeutxo would make prunednodetoday obsolete.
06:51 < fiatjaf> darosior: yes, we were discussing about his service. the problem is that due to chainstate obfuscation no one else can verify what he is providing
06:52 < fiatjaf> darosior: assumeutxo is a "built-in" way of doing exactly the same thing we're trying to do here
06:52  * jasan just thinks assumeutxo-like PRs take years (and none is in master yet)
06:52 < darosior> oh, didn't read the backlog :)
06:52 < darosior> jasan: a big part of the assumeutxo work was merged
06:52 < fiatjaf> I think it wouldn't be necessary to have assumeutxo if chainstate wasn't obfuscated
06:53 < jasan> darosior: happy to hear that!
06:53 < jasan> thanks for info
06:53 < darosior> fiatjaf: the UX though, + assumeutxo still syncs in the background
06:53 < darosior> (More here jasan https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/projects/11)
06:53 < jasan> fiatjaf: I agree with that, but let's assume the users of Windows OS have a real reason why they did obfuscation, and I think they had
06:54 < darosior> Yes the reason is that you can be storing "illegal" or unethical data on your disk space
06:54 < fiatjaf> could have made that optional
06:54 < darosior> And get into trouble
06:54 < darosior> True
06:55 < fiatjaf> but yes, the ux of assumeutxo is better, although in my personal case I would prefer to skip validation and just trust the utxo hash
06:56 < fiatjaf> specially if I was able to say with certainty that that hash is good by verifying it against another node of mine
06:57 < darosior> Yeah
06:57 < jasan> fiatjaf: yes, this makes sense also personally for me, but I can also see why such thinking is not appreciated very much in Bitcoin development
06:58 < jasan> fiatjaf: one article said something 
06:58 < jasan> like "privacy"
06:58 < darosior> Why not signing the hash from "gettxoutsetinfo" though?
06:59  * jasan is running bitcoin-cli gettxoutsetinfo (takes a while here)
06:59 < darosior> The work on Muhash will make this even better, but yeah you need to run first :/
07:00 < fiatjaf> darosior: didn't know of such a thing
07:00 < fiatjaf> none of these things really
07:00 < darosior> https://gist.github.com/fjahr/fa4892874b090d3a4f4fccc5bafa0210
07:01 < jasan> https://bitcoincore.reviews/19055 (Muhash)
07:04  * jasan plans to start attending Bitcoin Review and also the L2s Onchain Support IRC Workshop.
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07:09 < jasan> Assume UTXO can manage to sync an on-line node - this is a big advantage over what I played with so far. All my deobfuscation experiments were done on non-connected bitcoin daemons. And gettxoutsetinfo also seems to be a moving target if the node is online...
07:13 < jasan> Ah, seems my geuess was wrong. getutxoutsetinfo returned twice the same to me on an online full node (probably thanks to no block being mined in between the runs).
07:13 < jasan> darosior: ^^ thanks, I did not use gettxoutsetinfo yet
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07:37 < fiatjaf> interesting
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07:58 < shafire> cdecker: I think, you could also delete the master tag at docker hub
09:29 <@cdecker> shafire: indeed, it used to be the bleeding edge master commit, but it broke some time ago, maybe I'll revive it. Deleting it may break some users (myself included)
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11:13 < fiatjaf> cdecker: so custom notification is already merged
11:13 < fiatjaf> I didn't know
11:14 < fiatjaf> one question: the notification payload for sendpay_success, for example, has the form: '{"sendpay_success": {"payment_hash": ...}}'
11:14 < fiatjaf> but from your PR it seems that the notification payload for pay_success is '{"payload": {"payment_hash": ...}}'
11:14 < fiatjaf> is that correct?
11:15 < fiatjaf> in the python tests however they're handled in the exact same way so I'm confused
11:19 < fiatjaf> also, do you think that fixes the mangling of two different 'pay' attempts? -- do you know if that was a problem in the first place?
11:19 < fiatjaf> if it was, then I'm not sure that notification will fix it
11:51 <@cdecker> fiatjaf: yes, payloads get wrapped so we can add origin information on the outer wrapper, and distinguish from internal notifications
11:52 <@cdecker> pyln does some magic when it comes to binding arguments (not sure I'd do it again this way...)
11:52 <@cdecker> Pretty sure it is the mixing of multiple pay attempts that is throwing off listpays
11:54 <@cdecker> pay notifications should trigger multiple times when retried with the same invoice, so update only one pending per notification, the ultimate fix will be in fixing the aggregation though
11:56 < fiatjaf> hmm, ok
11:57 < fiatjaf> so the notification is {"payload": <whatever the plugin sends>}, it's not {"payload": {"topic_name": <whatever plugin sends>}}, right?
11:57 < fiatjaf> because the internal notifications have this double-embedding thing that can be confusing
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13:00 < vincenzopalazzo> Hello, cdecker I have a stupid question about the SimpleBitcoinProxy. There are any particular reason, that this class use the proxy inside the class method instend to extend it?
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--- Log closed Fri May 14 00:00:54 2021