--- Log opened Mon Feb 28 00:00:12 2022
06:57 -!- pinheadmz [~pinheadmz@hns-contributor.dev] has joined #coinswap
06:58 < pinheadmz> belcher just reading up on the project -- are you still thinking about 2p-ecdsa? wouldnt it make more sense to use schnorr now that bip340 is available ?
06:58 < pinheadmz> is there a good library for threshold ecdsa you are already looking at ?
07:00 < belcher> pinheadmz coinswap depends on what the rest of the network uses for its anonymity set, and ecdsa is much much much more common right now than taproot, i expect that will remain the case for a long time, so im still thinking of using ecdsa-2p
07:00 < pinheadmz> makes sense
07:01 -!- willcl_ark [~willcl-ar@user/willcl-ark/x-8282106] has joined #coinswap
07:01 < belcher> however taproot can be really useful for the backout contract transactions, right now those are implemented using bitcoin's script, so in the rare case when a coinswap ends up in the backout stage everyone looking at the blockchain will see the ugly scripts and the hashvalue and preimage, but using schnorr we can switch to using adaptor signatures instead which would make the whole thing look like regular bip340 outputs
07:02 < willcl_ark> ^ this looks like the answer to what I was coming here to ask too :)
07:02 < pinheadmz> huh interesting
07:03 < pinheadmz> so is there a multiparty ecdsa lib you like? can libsecp156k1 do this already?
07:03 < pinheadmz> im interested inlearning how it even works. schnorr is so much simpler :-P
07:03 < belcher> libsecp256k1 cant do it..
07:03 < belcher> iv linked some resources here https://github.com/bitcoin-teleport/teleport-transactions/issues/39
07:03 < pinheadmz> oh great thanks
07:03 < belcher> yeah it somewhat sucks that we're forced to use ecdsa-2p, but it shouldnt be too bad i hope, its worth it for the massive gains
07:04 < belcher> i really think schnorr wont really see much adoption, segwit took ages and ages and that had a huge monetary incentive because of lower fees which schnorr doesnt
07:04 < pinheadmz> hm thats true
07:04 < belcher> also iv seen places like coinbase.com saying they wont support withdrawing to a taproot address
07:04 < belcher> its just not a priority for them they said
07:05 < belcher> taproot is basically a privacy update, coinbase.com and the others wont make it easy for us to improve privacy, thats how i see it
07:05 < belcher> so we're left with ecdsa2p
07:05 < pinheadmz> yeah taproot opens up some interesting applications, but finanically only benefits big multisig users
07:05 < pinheadmz> (like liquid *cough*cough* )
07:05 < belcher> yeah, and lightning
07:05 < belcher> but because off-chain tech is so space efficent, the vast majority of on-chain data will probably not be off-chain channel openings for a while
07:06 < belcher> like LN has this huge ecosystem today but its only like 20k outputs i think
07:06 < belcher> very small in block space, but supports a big LN system... thats a sign of how efficent it is
07:06 < pinheadmz> thats a cool stat, hadnt thought of that
07:06 < belcher> so even if all of LN moves to taproot, we're still in a situation where most of the blockchain uses ecdsa
07:07 < pinheadmz> i dont really see the pirvacy advantage. ive heard it applied to LN but LN is a public network graph anyway
07:07 < pinheadmz> i guess the pirvacy comes in, again, with more interesting applications like teleport
07:07 < belcher> adaptor signatures are a nice privacy update for LN
07:07 < belcher> right now a LN payment has a common hashlock value, every LN node along a payment route knows its part of the same payment because the hashlock value is the same
07:08 < belcher> but with adaptor signatures that isnt true, each hop can have a different adaptor
07:08 < pinheadmz> ah yes, and PTLCs can work like that as well
07:09 < belcher> PTLCs and adaptor signatures are the same thing, sorry i was using the older word
07:09 < pinheadmz> ahhhhh thanks
07:10 < pinheadmz> and "scriptless scripts"
07:10 < pinheadmz> hard to keep track ;-)
07:10 < belcher> also, some LN channels are unannounced, maybe that will be useful for taproot
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 01 00:00:13 2022