--- Day changed Thu Jun 09 2016
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04:38 < waxwing> seems like freenode is more relaxed than most public IRC networks; tried a few others and they seem to boot when you start multiple nicks from one machine. on the positive side, the code handles it OK.
04:55 < belcher_> waxwing: maybe one, they're very rare
04:56 < waxwing> belcher_: maybe one that allows? or ?
04:56 < belcher_> maybe one that allows
04:56 < belcher_> i have them written down somewhere but it was all small networks
04:56 < waxwing> in other news, it's kinda quaint that travis thought we might be mining bitcoins on their hardware :)
04:57 < belcher_> hah
04:57 < belcher_> maybe someone could start a tor-enabled irc network that requires a bitcoin commitment (or simply a payment)
04:57 < waxwing> yeah, it's not a problem for real use, just for testing. i'll build the PR in a bit and then run it live.
04:57 < waxwing> yeah, ironically the VPS i got for hosting doesn't allow IRC servers :(
04:57 < belcher_> of course the problem with irc over tor is tedious trolls
04:59 < belcher_> i bet if you run it over a port not 6667 they wont know, irc doesnt have to use many resources, iv run servers from my home connection
05:09 < waxwing> it crossed my mind.
06:30 < waxwing> belcher_: i'm a bit bemused, how did test_broadcast_method work at this line? https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/1c20bfce220c83903adfd1fad8b3f6ea90af2439/joinmarket/irc.py#L213
06:30 < waxwing> you seemed to be passing a nick_order_dict of {'counterparty':[]} which means that order['oid'] doesn't parse
06:34 < waxwing> ah, i think i got it. it didn't, it just used abstract MessageChannel, the old form.
06:35 < waxwing> ok, all clear, i can just overwrite in the DummyMessageChannel
06:37 < waxwing> damn that test is fast :)
06:51 < JM-IRCRelay> [jony] hey
07:05 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ opened pull request #568: Facility to use multiple message channels (including IRC servers or other) (develop...mc-collection) https://git.io/voOB5
07:05 < waxwing> travis is back on. wouldn't be surprised if it is unhappy, although all the tests are passing locally, including tumbler.
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07:37 < OverlordQ> ugh, that guy still doign the same fills lol
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08:54 < Giszmo> hi. is there any archive to this room? I'm too curious if gmaxwell or others answered since 10h ago my laptop had to go to sleep.
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09:09 < veqtrus> a channel op could request the channel to be added to https://botbot.me/
09:11 < Pilate> thats a pretty neat service actually
09:13 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] chris-belcher pushed 2 new commits to develop: https://git.io/voO9l
09:13 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop ff399af Alex Cato: sendpayment/tumbler: increase default maker count
09:13 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 682f04b chris-belcher: Merge pull request #558 from AlexCato/change_default_makercount...
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10:16 < belcher_> veqtrus: i already requested a botbot.me, like more than a year ago
10:17 < belcher_> Giszmo: he didnt answer
10:18 < Giszmo> thanks belcher_
10:37 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] thanks for merging the increased default maker count. This has one unintended side effect though: more makers, more tx fees. The more makers, the more the inital tx fee estimation of the current code is off from the real amount. I suggest merging #552 as well, esp. since Adam/blecher already agreed to the changes in the PR discussion
10:42 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ closed pull request #552: sendpayment / tumbler: dynamic tx fee estimation (develop...fix_tx_fees) https://git.io/vrAXu
10:45 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] :)
10:47 < waxwing> i'm just a bit annoyed the build tests weren't working. that was an ideal candidate (although only a sanity check for sure)
10:51 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] now that the JM-dev-branch is updated, whats the best way to sync my fork on github with it?
10:52 < waxwing> git pull <remote> develop (where remote is your remote name, origin by default)
10:53 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] oh, that doesnt just sync my local copy with my own fork?
10:53 < waxwing> well 'remote' should just be the remote name for Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket.
10:54 < waxwing> you can add a remote with git remote add
10:54 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] thanks!
10:54 < waxwing> git remote -v shows you the current list you have.
10:56 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] so since i forked with the button on github, my workflow probably is: "git remote add <jm-remotename>", then a git pull from the dev branch there, then a git push of that branch to my own forked repo... right?
10:58 < waxwing> yes i think so, that works. it's like git remote add jm-remotename <github link to the repo> in this case. or something like that.
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11:20 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato_] works slightly different, but even easier imho: a) add the remote JM repo b) merge dev branch from it into my local dev branch c) push that to my fork. Done
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11:43 < Giszmo> belcher_ did you understand my concern and that I did not want to do away with deterministic key derivation?
11:43 < Giszmo> If the wallet backup covers all history, you might want to migrate to a new wallet from time to time and ideally the wallet should facilitate this, if not use a scheme where it forgot what were its keys after using them once, always.
11:47 < pigeons> i really don't see any faciliatation needed except what already exists to sweep everything to a new address
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11:48 < pigeons> its always been a conservative bitcoin approach to not encourage deletion of old private keys even though there is a privacy concern, its best left to the user because mistakes cost money
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11:50 < pigeons> rotating to a new seed seems like a good practice in some cases, but kind of out of scope of joinmarket to me
11:50 < pigeons> generate a new wallet and send everything there, boom done
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13:15 < dogswatching> Is there a demand for this thing? I'm very new, just started up a yield generator, how do I know i did it right?
13:16 < fluffypony> dogswatching: it's growing 
13:16 < fluffypony> it's small now, but all it takes is for one event (someone getting busted for a lack of blockchain privacy) to catapult it to more mainstream levels 
13:17 < belcher_> hopefully not IMO, the project has a ton of things that could go wrong
13:17 < belcher_> needs more time to get better
13:17 < fluffypony> belcher_: you can't control when it goes mainstream :-P
13:17 < belcher_> yeah..
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13:18 < dogswatching> I just left the settings as is? Do I leave it running for a few days before I know if I did it right? All the text popping up on screen means nothing to me.
13:18 < belcher_> check what price you set, how it compares to other offers
13:18 < raedah> How about a secret phrase handshake. Only do joins and disclose utxos to participants who know the secret phrase.
13:19 < fluffypony> raedah: as long as the secret phrase is "fluffy ponies are the best ponies" I'm all in
13:19 < belcher_> to what end?
13:19 < fluffypony> belcher_: I think is joke
13:19 < raedah> belcher_: thinking about ways to thwart the fake takers that are sniffing utxos.
13:20 < dogswatching> belcher: how do I check the price? and other offers?
13:20 < belcher_> see http://joinmarket.me/ob
13:20 < raedah> fluffypony: anyone can create a secret, and people can accept as many secrets as they want.
13:20 < fluffypony> raedah: the only way to do that is to have a MASSIVE market so that it's insanely expensive to attack 
13:21 < raedah> fluffypony: there is no cost in running a taker script. we arent checking their utxos.
13:21 < fluffypony> oh point 
13:22 < fluffypony> maybe we need to tie up their funds against offers 
13:22 < fluffypony> ala BitSquare 
13:23 < raedah> belcher_: there is a public hottub in my town. Not an analogy. Really. They have a gate with a code to get in. They give codes out to people in the community they trust, and they tell them to share the codes with peole they trust. If anyone comes to the hottub that is too loud or bothersome, they disable that code.
13:23 < belcher_> who would decide if a person is bothersome
13:23 < belcher_> it must be some centralized manager of the space
13:24 < raedah> belcher_: for the hottub yes, but for the jm software its decentralized. If a taker is spamming me, I disable the code they are using.
13:24 < belcher_> why would you do that? it doesnt cost you anything directly
13:25 < belcher_> only as a vague sense of harming people's belief in joinmarket as a way of providing privacy
13:25 < raedah> I am talking about thwartng utxo sniffers.
13:26 < belcher_> yep
13:26 < belcher_> i think it will end up being solution 2. from waxwing's summary
13:26 < raedah> link?
13:27 < belcher_> https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/9cbba5e9408d23813ca8
13:32 < dogswatching> blecher: if i set jm_single().nickname = 'bob' will I then see bob under counterparty on http://joinmarket.me/ob?
13:33 < belcher_> yeah
13:33 < belcher_> idk why you'd do that though
13:33 < dogswatching> I don't know how to find my random nick
13:33 < dorkbot> what is this joinmarket stuff
13:34 < dogswatching> Like I say, I'm very new.
13:34 < belcher_> it should print it out somewhere in the log dogswatching, but yes you may it right it would be nice if it was easier to find
13:34 < dorkbot> is it itself a wallet, or do I install it alongside a wallet
13:34 < belcher_> right now its a wallet itself dorkbot
13:35 < belcher_> you can configure it to send coinjoins from bitcoin core's wallet from the command line
13:35 < dorkbot> does it download the blockchain?
13:35 < belcher_> this explains a lot https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/wiki
13:35 < dorkbot> what level of anonymity we talking about here
13:35 < belcher_> joinmarket either connects to bitcoin core or queries from a web block explorer
13:37 < dogswatching> belcher: if I set cjfee_a = 0, I will probably get a match? I jus want to see if I set everyghing up correctly?
13:37 < belcher_> theres forum threads and guides dorkbot if you want to learn more, see the sidebar of reddit.com/r/joinmarket
13:37 < belcher_> dogswatching: yeah, or check the orderbook to see what price you need to put to get chosen fairly often
13:38 < belcher_> id say just be patient
13:38 < belcher_> bbl, afk now
13:38 < dogswatching> thank
13:38 < dogswatching> s
13:54 < veqtrus> dogswatching: yield-generator-basic can be configured from the command line
13:55 < veqtrus> i should write a comment near the values in the script
14:08 < dogswatching> how can i run yield-generator-basic as a background process on linux?
14:36 < raedah> joinmarket mention, http://weuse.cash/2016/06/09/btc-xmr-zcash/
14:36 < raedah> "Another option is a form of coinjoin/joinmarket. This is a system where people let other people know they want to mix their coins. People eventually sign one big transaction with all the inputs of the people who wanted to mix at that certain point in time and get outputs from that transaction to a new address."
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