--- Day changed Thu Jun 16 2016
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01:19 < waxwing> we've had dynamic fees since late last year, Core estimatefee or using blockcypher if you don't have Core, you can target number of blocks to confirm with the tx_fees config var and there's a sanity check in case the estimate value returned is crazy.
01:20 < waxwing> yes 3 is default, it seemed about right, i have heard of and seen some problems with using 1. But people are free to target 10+ blocks confirmation if they like.
01:22 < waxwing> also if estimatefee fails for some reason (like you get -1) there is a hardcoded fallback of 30 sat/byte, for better or worse.
01:25 < gmaxwell> perhaps some of the stuck reports were hitting that fallback.
01:25 < waxwing> gmaxwell: stuck reports here?
01:25 < gmaxwell> (or really, if it was just taking 6... well 3 can do that pretty easily if the load ramps right after your txn)
01:26 < waxwing> i think what tends to happen is that people can't get the tx to go through, rather than having it stuck with low fee
01:26 < waxwing> we used to get stuck reports in the period just before dynamic fees. i don't think we've had any since.
01:27 < waxwing> but the whole thing could be better, and it's true that if you're trying to transact a small amount you could easily get 'insufficient funds' and quit in a few different scenarios.
01:28 < waxwing> the fallback is a bit low now, but i don't think it'll (hardly ever) get used.
01:30 < gmaxwell> it's not bad, just low at the moment.
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03:52 < waxwing> http://qz.com/705273/mongolia-is-changing-all-its-addresses-to-three-word-phrases/
03:52 < waxwing> "For example, the White House, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, becomes sulk.held.raves"
03:52 < waxwing> lol
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06:14 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] first order for my multi message channel YG, there might be a problem:
06:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  <<privmsg nick=Zowasorey message=!fill 0 218736 d8dc3...
06:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] (lots of UTXO finding then)
06:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] but it seems not to be able to reply:
06:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  Couldn't find a route to send privmsg
06:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  For counterparty: Zowasorey
06:16 < waxwing> that's not necessarily an error. it could be that the counterparty left.
06:16 < waxwing> but, it could also be an error :)
06:16 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] there's not even 0.1 sec between the first !fill and the failed reply
06:16 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] will upload the log in more detail, sec
06:16 < waxwing> hmm. i agree looks suspicious
06:17 < waxwing> yeah you could just send it to me if you prefer
06:17 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] Will do
06:18 < waxwing> also please double check you're on 65bb4de there
06:19 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] uh... what?
06:20 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] ah, the commit
06:20 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yes, i'm on that
06:20 < waxwing> i see it on my bot at around 10 minutes ago
06:21 < waxwing> looks like Zowa* tried more than once, but i seem to have got all the way to the tx with it
06:21 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] since we're on different irc servers --> the email address given in your commit mesage works?
06:24 < waxwing> ah, right. yes, that'll be fine, thanks.
06:26 < waxwing> no, my mistake, it's difficult to read. i did a successful tx with that bot this morning, but 10-15 minutes ago there were two attempts but didn't finish.
06:26 < waxwing> however i didn't get your "couldn't find route" error
06:27 < waxwing> i'm going to reset to higher fees, seen enough volume for now :)
06:28 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] you should have mail :)
06:29 < waxwing> i see two instance of couldn't find route over the last 2 days on my bot, 2 different counterparties. it's an expected condition if they have just quit when you try to send a message.
06:29 < waxwing> but, i agree it seems rather weird in that case.
06:30 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] well, it's just N=1 samplesize. I've reduced my cj fees close to 0, so i'll probably see more traffic now. Maybe this was just unlucky
06:30 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] lets see what the next join attempts do
06:30 < waxwing> ok you do that and i'll bump them. my wallet is big enough for now :)
06:31 < waxwing> i mentioned yesterday btw, you can use irc.rizon.net if you like, they have hostmask on or whatever it's called.
06:31 < waxwing> i'm on those 3 now
06:33 < waxwing> i suspect that that @check_privmsg decorator is not doing what i originally intended, although it may be just that it's redundant rather than wrong.
06:37 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] oh, nice. Will add that 3rd server as well then. Is it port 6697 as well?
06:37 < waxwing> yeah
06:39 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] the second i joined the CyAn irc, that spammer tried to !fill as well. It usually works, but this time failed as well
06:39 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] 2016-06-16 15:38:32,737 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  Couldn't find a route to send privmsg
06:39 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] 2016-06-16 15:38:32,737 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  For counterparty: Qifuzazik
06:40 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] or might that mean he tries to send a privmsg on every irc channel, but only succeeded on one and displays error messages from the others?
06:41 < waxwing> interesting. i got "done" immediately also, but i am responding normally.
06:41 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] the user also did not leave before the reply, he did so over a minute later
06:41 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] 2016-06-16 15:40:38,537 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  nick Qifuzazik has left
06:41 < waxwing> i'm going to comment out the log.debug in get_utxos_by_mixdepth as it's getting impossible to read
06:42 < waxwing> yes, i understand your point. i'm wondering if you're using Tor and that might be part of it.
06:42 < waxwing> because we are using the same code exactly right
06:42 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] let me check again
06:42 < waxwing> yeah i saw it leave too
06:43 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i'm working on the develop branch + the refs 568 PR, last 3 commits:
06:43 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] develop: commit 3eb126cc82e24a7ecce9f6c069b2365d1f250cc3
06:44 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] first message channel thing: commit 088ca1d2b3c94c78a622bb7effd1d93c504000c4
06:44 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] second on top of that: commit 65bb4decc3e9728bde5c2cda99f7cba6426abba7
06:44 < waxwing> yeah it's right, thanks
06:44 < waxwing> starting again, watching this time
06:45 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] im sure this worked before, the spammer usually got a response from me the last days. No idea why this would fail now
06:45 < waxwing> yeah the only thing i can think of is a timing difference with using Tor or something
06:45 < waxwing> dammit now i watch it, nothing happens :)
06:46 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i'll restart as well and see if this is reproducible. If it is, i'll try without TOR the next try
06:46 < waxwing> anyway i've done like 50 transactions in the last 3 days, which is useful evidence, but of course doesn't mean at all that nothign is wrong.
06:47 < waxwing> i also saw CgAn restart without breaking anything which is good
06:48 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] mh. Where's my favorite spammer now. Will try again every half hour or so
06:51 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] there we go
06:51 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] 2016-06-16 15:51:14,724 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  Couldn't find a route to send privmsg
06:52 < waxwing> which nick?
06:52 < waxwing> same one, Qifu* ?
06:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yup
06:52 < waxwing> you got that after !orderbook ?
06:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] tried without TOR now
06:53 < waxwing> he's just left by the looks of it
06:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] 2016-06-16 15:52:34,518 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  Couldn't find a route to send privmsg 2016-06-16 15:52:34,518
06:53 < waxwing> i'm not getting that error, hmm
06:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  For counterparty: Qifuzazik
06:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato]  2016-06-16 15:52:38,255 [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  nick Qifuzazik has left
06:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] he left 4 secs after i couldnt send the privmsg
06:53 < waxwing> yeah sure i understand
06:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i didnt get that error earlier today either
06:53 < waxwing> i'm seeing all the same as you except the can't find route error
06:54 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] totally at a loss what that could be
06:55 < waxwing> just sanity checked, i'm def on 65bb4de
06:55 < waxwing> maybe pastebin your joinmarket.cfg?
06:56 < waxwing> host = irc.cyberguerrilla.org, chat.freenode.net, irc.rizon.net
06:56 < waxwing> channel = joinmarket-pit, joinmarket-pit, joinmarket-pit
06:56 < waxwing> port = 6697, 6697, 6697
06:56 < waxwing> usessl = true, true, true
06:56 < waxwing> socks5 = false, false, false
06:56 < waxwing>  ^ only relevant bit from mine
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] host = 6dvj6v5imhny3anf.onion, chat.freenode.net, irc.rizon.net
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] channel = joinmarket-pit, joinmarket-pit, joinmarket-pit
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] port = 6698, 6697, 6697
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] usessl = true, true, true
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] socks5 = true, false, false
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] socks5_host = localhost, localhost, localhost
06:57 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] socks5_port = 9144, 9050, 9050
06:58 < waxwing> ok, seems at least plausible the delta with the hidden service is what causes it? if you can prove it's that then we/i'll have to figure out what to do about it.
06:59 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] will check the logs. For the spammer, that might be a plausible explanation. Unsure about the other TX
07:00 < waxwing> isn't it really the same kind of scenario? the code somehow is losing the counterparty
07:03 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] nothing useful in the logs, there's no "<username> left" or something before i stopped the YG about 20 minutes after the error
07:04 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] before more effort is put into that, let's see if the next real CJ request fails as well
07:04 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] since you've done many successful joins, it would be kind of odd if the same code failed for me
07:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] spammer attack again: this time my bot replied just fine
07:06 < waxwing> i see !orderbook from that nick, did you get a !fill?
07:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yup
07:07 < waxwing> right. it probably cycles in all kinds of interesting ways. and you're still on the HS?
07:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] hs?
07:07 < waxwing> hidden service
07:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yes
07:08 < waxwing> perhaps the error condition just depends on the latency of the connection
07:08 < waxwing> so, always works with a good connection, but unreliable on a slower one
07:08 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] had the same error without a tor connection earlier though, just used a plain clearnet one earlier
07:08 < waxwing> that's certainly somethign that isn't picked up by the rudimentary test scripts since they all just ping around on localhost
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07:10 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] well, now that i'm conjoining basically for free, lets get a few joins and see how often there's a problem
07:10 < waxwing> oh, you had an error without Tor once, missed that. it's getting a little more implausible to just put it down to connection reliability or speed then. my connection is OK but not super-good I think.
07:10 < waxwing> yeah sure, wait and look later. afk.
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09:11 < Overlord1> jeebus, whos' the guy adverting 46 different orders lol
09:11 < Overlord1> And it looks like the guy is back as Debawuwib
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10:45 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] waxwing: same problem again, with the same user ('Couldn't find a route to send privmsg'). I have a theory what might be the problem here:
10:46 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] there was no preceeding "!orderbook" by that user, i guess it's a guy running a tumbler for a LONG time; the same username for hours suggests that.
10:46 < waxwing> ah. i find one "couldnt find" for that guy from about 30 minutes ago
10:46 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] so without any public message in a channel, do the message channels maybe not have any logic to identify which irc server this was on?
10:47 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] they just get a privmsg out of the blue
10:48 < waxwing> interesting, i will take a look shortly. good thinking on the matter, appreciated.
10:48 < waxwing> it sounds plausible
10:49 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] that would also be coherent with the spammer sending a privmsg once you join the channel: you havent seen him write anything to a public channel before then as well
10:52 < waxwing> yeah i will look properly in a bit but i think you're right.
10:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] and i have another example: the first successful join just started
10:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] that user did also not have a preceeding !orderbook right now, but over 3 hrs ago
10:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] that seemed to be good enough
10:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] just checked: there was no recorded !orderbook ever for the other user which keeps failing to join with me
10:54 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] afk :-)
10:59 < waxwing> yes, took a quick look, it's very clear. on_pubmsg is set to trigger see_nick; what we actually need is an on_join callback that triggers see_nick. i don't think we ever had an on_join callback.
10:59 < waxwing> or, meh, could trigger it in on_privmsg too, i guess that's fine
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13:08 < niakk> hello, pals
13:09 < niakk> any one used patientsendpayment.py before? does it work like blockchain sharedsend?
13:10 < niakk> let's talk, mates
13:12 < niakk> hello?
13:12 -!- HeySteve [~Lizard__W@unaffiliated/heysteve] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
13:12 < niakk> wake up everyones!
13:16 < fluffypony> niakk: everyone is on different timezones, so you may have to hang around for a bit for someone to answer
13:16 < fluffypony> waxwing and AlexCato were around recently, but not sure if they're here now
13:16 < niakk> at least you are here bro :)
13:17 -!- kybl [~ales@ip-89-239-24-145.mameradirychlost.cz] has joined #joinmarket
13:19 < niakk> hi kybl
13:24 < kybl> hi niakk :-)
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13:29 < niakk> lets chat kybl
13:29 < niakk> ever used sendpayment.py before?
13:32 < niakk> felt confident while using it?
13:38 < pigeons> what do you mean felt confident? Cofident about what?
13:39 < niakk> about your coins would be mixed well?
13:39 < niakk> and no one can find out where did you send your coins? (at least not so easy to find out)
13:40 < niakk> to
13:41 < pigeons> no one pass with sendpayment probably isn't sufficient mixing. They recommend using tumbler.py
13:41 < niakk> but it would take a very long time
13:42 < niakk> we are talking about 7+ hours
13:42 < pigeons> you can configure how long the tumbler waits for timing analysis resistance and how many passes
13:43 < niakk> i think a mix like blockchain.info sharedsend should be quite enough, what do you think about that?
13:43 < pigeons> so yes, sendpayment is certainly quicker and easier. I use it and it works fine. But again its not as hard to link you
13:43 < pigeons> no i would never use that
13:43 < niakk> i tried sendpayment.py and i think it's even worse than sharedsend
13:44 < pigeons> that system was trivially broken in the past, i dont know about now but its really a different model and ther are so many problems with all their products
13:44 < pigeons> i feel much much more confident with sendpayment than bc.i sharedsend
13:44 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] i thought bc.i sharedsend was down and wasn't coming back
13:46 < niakk> because the parties in sendpayment.py are just bots(their transactions are so easy to be idented in your mixing transaction)
13:46 < niakk> in sharedcoin, all parties are real users just like you.
13:47 < niakk> show me one of your sendpayment and i can tell from where you send to which destination
13:47 < niakk> yep, sharedsend is disabled :(
13:47 < pigeons> sharedsend was so irresponsibly harmful in the past that i'm not even interested in wasting my time to see if its better, which i seriously doubt
13:47 < pigeons> ok then, no contest, it doesnt exist
13:47 < pigeons> so it isnt better
13:48 < niakk> :(
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13:49 < niakk> i bought some coins from coinbase few months ago, later i send them to darkmarket with just sendpayment. dam! coinbase found it out easily
13:49 < niakk> i have to promise won't do it again to keep my account open.
13:50 < Pilate> that wasnt very smart :P
13:50 < pigeons> and you're worried about waiting 7 hours versus losing everything lol
13:50 < niakk> they even tell me how they find out, its so easy
13:51 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] how did they find out? i've used bc.i before finding out about joinmarket
13:51 < niakk> i need a payment example, then i show you how to track it easily. in 1 or 2 minutes
13:51 < niakk> with only a blockchain explorer
13:52 < niakk> blockchain.info or blockr.io
13:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] i don't have any handy, it's been a while since i've used them. scary though.
13:55 < niakk> fine, the way to track it's in your mixing transaction, only your address and your destination act like normal transaction(with 1 or 2 input to 1 or 2 output)
13:55 < niakk> others will keep making other multi-input-output (because they are bots joining the next mix task)
13:56 < niakk> so your source and destination address are exposed just like that
13:59 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] ouch, that's completely messed up
13:59 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] joinmarket is nothing like that
14:02 < niakk> i found an example
14:02 < niakk> want me to show you?
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14:16 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] sure, i'd love that
14:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i'd use the tumbler approach. If it takes too long and you often need smaller amounts... keep some mixed coins in reserve? If, for example, I knew I'll probably need 0.1 btc next weekend, i'd start a tumble now and use my own addresses as target. The tumbling can need a while then. In a few hours, I have 3 unlinkable addresses then from which I can
14:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> spend whenever i want without delay
14:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] guess what i'm trying to say is: just plan ahead a bit, then it doesnt matter if it takes time
14:34 <+JM-IRCRelay> [lorem] yeah, i premix mine and just move them to a "clean" wallet, ready to use
14:34 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i have use patientsendpayment before, but that one currently is pretty broken. Can't use it to send to external addresses
14:35 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] additional benefit of taking some time to tumble: can configure lower transaction fees. Those are high lately
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17:39 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] dan-da closed pull request #575: adds --show-xpub option to display wallet xpub and for each mix level. (master...xpub_pull_request) https://git.io/voRsA
18:05 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] dan-da opened pull request #577: add --show-xpub option (develop...xpub_pull_request2) https://git.io/vouNR
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22:07 < adlai> where does JM-IRCRelay connect?
22:38 -!- MattRK [~MattRK@ip98-168-128-134.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #joinmarket
22:39 < MattRK> Does anyone know if there's something wrong with the IRC server? Starting at about 1pm EST i'm getting "Connection timed out" errors. Just curious if something is wrong with the server or if there's something wrong with my setup. 
22:40 < MattRK> I initiated my first tumble last night at around 1am and started getting connection timeouts about 80% through. 
22:41 < MattRK> I can connect to the irc server manually from the machine and i can join the channel. I have no idea what's wrong. I can't run the tumbler script or the ob-watcher script. 
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