--- Day changed Tue Jun 21 2016
00:55 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] waxwing: sendpayment-fail solved (not enough funds error). There was indeed a >30 btc unconfirmed transaction for several hours. The blocks are too full lately.
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04:33 < pigeons> I don't think its because "the bloks are too full lately" 
04:42 < onefox> there are less joins lately right?
04:43 < pigeons> hard to tell, but there was a problem with the irc server ,and a "spammer" annoying the "takers"
04:43 < onefox> i got down from 7-10 per day to 1... with my maker
04:44 < pigeons> sorry i meant makers, right
04:44 < onefox> since 10 days or something like that
04:44 < onefox> i also see the spammer in my logs
04:45 < onefox> is there a plan of dealing with such behavior?
04:45 < pigeons> i've seen people dicussing ideas in this channel, but not a clear path yet
04:46 < onefox> ah okey i don't thing he is harming anyone atm or?
04:46 < pigeons> right
04:46 < onefox> its just annoying as far as i can tell
04:46 < onefox> i need to go to some crash logs from the last days 
04:46 < pigeons> looks like the devs do want to do something, its just not easy yet to know what exactly
04:47 < pigeons> have you seen the multi-irc channel support?
04:48 < pigeons> i don't think that's a fix, the spammer can just spam the other irc server, but i don't think they are spamming it yet
04:48 < pigeons> but you wont get many joins from it either
04:48 < onefox> no iam not that deep into the proposals 
04:49 < onefox> iam still only on the build in channel from version 0.1.4
04:49 < pigeons> ok well scrolling up it looks like if you arent into testing its best to ait a bit
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05:15 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [pigeons] I don't think its because "the bloks are too full lately" <-- what else would lock up my YieldGenerator's funds for several hours?
05:17 < pigeons> there are lots of things, i dont want to turn this channel into a place for arguing it, but its tought to see people just assume the false "blocks are full" argument
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05:18 < fluffypony> the truth is that blocks are full of pigeons
05:18 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] its not an assumption; this specific case was caused by a coinjoin-transaction (in which i participated as a maker), which ended up taking 5+ hours to confirm
05:18 < fluffypony> that's why I'm switching to broadcasting my transactions via smoke signals 
05:18 < pigeons> i said full bkocks were not the reason for his slow confirmation, not that blocks are full
05:18 < pigeons> *not that blocks are not full
05:18 < fluffypony> AlexCato: in the middle of everyone complaining about full blocks I've been using Electrum with the default settings, and have only once waited for a transaction to confirm beyond the very next block 
05:19 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] thats like a patient coming to a doctos. Patient: " i think my arm is broken". Doctor looks at his own arm: " i think mine is okay"
05:20 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i have no power over the tx fees others pay for the coinjoins
05:20 < fluffypony> I'm just giving anecdotal evidence, which is the best type of evidence
05:20 < pigeons> AlexCato: you had one transaction take a few hours to confirm, ignoring what the reason for that actually is, why do you think you can make an assumption based on that
05:20 < fluffypony> when people tell me they found a bug I normally tell them "well it works for me" anyway
05:20 < fluffypony> :-P
05:21 < pigeons> if you are having a hard time getting things to confirm, you will get help with that, but the reason is not because blocks are full
05:22 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i cant get help with that as a joinmarket maker, thats out of my hands
05:23 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] the takers pay the fees, and those are dynamically estimated by bitcoin core
05:25 < pigeons> for the takers who use bitcoin core yes
05:27 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] must admit that i have no clue how blockr does it. Still, if the blocks hadnt been full with high-fee transactions, that would have not been an issue :) The specific transaction im talking about still paid about 2500 sat/kbyte iirc, which isnt insanely much, but still nowhere near spamlevel
05:28 < onefox> as a maker you also have the fee option... but you would have to set it really high for that not to happen... and you don't know the size of the transation but i think you can easily set your fee higher
05:28 < pigeons> "must admit that i have no clue how blockr does it. Still, if the blocks hadnt been full with high-fee transactions, that would have not been an issue" this part i am disputing as not true
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05:32 < waxwing> clients using blockr get a fee estimate from blockcypher. in case of insane value or no valid response, there is a fallback 30k sat/kB which may be a little slow but not really.
05:32 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] then i probably have not fully understood something. If the fee level was adequate and it still took extremely long to confirm: what else, except the fullness of blocks, would cause that?
05:33 < waxwing> alexcato what was the actual fee/kB for that slow tx, out of interest?
05:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] onefox: my bot already has the highest fees of all the makers
05:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] around 2500 sat/kbyte iirc
05:34 < waxwing> wow, really? something seriously wrong there. i think even if blockr and even if tx_fees set to > 6 you wouldn't get such a number.
05:35 < waxwing> i have 4 txs yesterday as maker, avg conf time ~ 7-8 minutes
05:35 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yes, the same is true for most of my transactions as well
05:35 < waxwing> def 2500 not 25000?
05:36 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] just noticed that yesterday beacuse it locked up 98% of my total funds until confirmed
05:36 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] well, 25000 would have confirmed right away ;) Yes, it was in the 2000-2600 sat/kbyte range
05:36 < waxwing> if you do something like estimatefee 20 on Core you get almost no difference to estimatefee 10 or something, ie it becomes asymptotic. right now I get ~ 21000 
05:37 < waxwing> if you set tx_fees = 22 while using blockr you will end up the same as if you used 7, because it just has 3 values "high, medium, low"
05:37 < waxwing> API could have screwed up, that's one possibility
05:37 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] and of course, you're right. Failed on one decimal point. It was in the 20000-26000 range
05:37 < waxwing> how big was the tx in bytes?
05:38 < waxwing> ah, that's better :)
05:38 < waxwing> in my experience, *occasionally* you see very slow confirms, it might just be luck
05:38 < waxwing> like very slow blocks in that hour or two
05:38 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] this definately is not JM's fault. My thesis was that the blocks are too full lately, which sparked this discussion
05:39 < waxwing> ok sorry didn't follow whole discussion but noted your earlier report
05:39 < waxwing> the other thing i was going to say about it:
05:39 < waxwing> we made a deliberate decision to have wallet-tool show unconfirmed funds by default, because people get panicky if they don't see their coins
05:39 < waxwing> the side effect is that people may occasionally get very confused when they can't spend
05:39 < waxwing> there is a listunspent_args config to change it if you want
05:40 < waxwing> unfortunately i forgot about this possibility yesterday :)
05:40 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yes. Its a good decision. Might add to a todo-list: give a better error message (e.g. not just "not enough funds", that might cause some panic as well, but "not enough funds with at least 1 confirmation" or something)
05:41 < waxwing> yes, nice idea
05:41 < onefox> But you can spent unconfrmed funds or?
05:41 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] theoretically yes, but JM doesnt allow it
05:41 < waxwing> it's possible, but iirc we don't allow it
05:41 < onefox> i mean from the protocoll level
05:41 < waxwing> yes, absolutely
05:41 < onefox> ah okey
05:41 < pigeons> you can broadcast the transaction but the prior transaction needs to confirm
05:42 < onefox> a double spend would fuck up a bit there i guess...
05:42 < waxwing> malleability is one big reason that it's better not to go down that road. but segwit will fix that.
05:43 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] CPFP was merge too iirc?
05:43 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] (child pays for parent)
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21:04 < MattRK> Is it possible to sweep all mixdepths with one transaction? 
21:20 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] nope. Would also be very not advisable from a privacy standpoint
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 21 23:49:41 2016
--- Log opened Tue Jun 21 23:50:23 2016
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