--- Day changed Mon Jul 04 2016
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03:18 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] any recommendations for a python IDE? Until now, the little changes I made were fine with vi and gedit, but more complex stuff should be done in an IDE
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03:19 < belcher_> i personally dont use an ide, just vim and the cli
03:22 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] hm. Didnt dare to change the max_mixdepth default value because i was unsure where else it might be used; this would have been an ideal task for an IDE, e.g. in c++/qtcreator i can just use "find usages" and then be certain there's no case i missed. Sucks to do this in vi/gedit :)
03:22 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] thanks though!
03:22 < belcher_> use grep
03:23 < waxwing> alexcato i use wing ide, but there's a few out there, forgot the names
03:23 < belcher_> but yes i see an ide where you right click can make this easier
03:23 < waxwing> i do find it useful for code traversal, i agree, i would miss having an ide
03:23 < waxwing> pycharm is one i think
03:23 < waxwing> belcher_: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/pull/586#issuecomment-230252230
03:24 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] thanks, i'll have a look at those
03:24 < waxwing> in case you have the time. in a comment above i showed a failure case.
03:24 < waxwing> alexcato re: your test, did you do the second run on the same bitcoind instance?
03:24 < waxwing> although, hmm, it still has value if you did.
03:25 < belcher_> ok
03:25 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yes, and now I see why this might be a problem (at least the yieldgen-test doesnt tell anything new)
03:25 < waxwing> it still has value as a test, since it ended the never-ending restart
03:26 < waxwing> in the regtest setup i made a kind of cheat case where i insert coins into several addresses before creating a new wallet, but i'm afraid it's really hard to make a realistic test scenario to cover all the different cases
03:26 < waxwing> you can resync on a non-new bitcoind with an index_cache, or on a new bitcoind with an index_cache, or (etc.. cartesian product)
03:27 < waxwing> not to mention the huge variety of possibilities of which addresses are used, and how that interacts with the value of addr_req_count
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04:31 < nkuttler> btw, the history --csv output can break because of tuples in mixdepth. i guess i'll just make a pull request to quote those fields?
05:08 < waxwing> nkuttler: sure, doesn't sound enormously controversial :)
05:13 < waxwing> k, going to merge the walletsyncfix shortly. back to the on_nick_change issue.
05:13 < waxwing> to pick up where we left off, the reason i coded it as "privmsg on the last channel seen on" was to be more robust against timeouts.
05:14 < waxwing> but, i agree that we will simply have to lock to the channel started on, even if it loses a tiny bit of robustness, since otherwise an impersonation attack (which to be fair is also difficult) is something we have to worry about.
05:14 < waxwing> and we really dont' want to be worrying about that.
05:15 < waxwing> hmm, but that's not quite the same as the "on_nick_change" question: for that, perhaps just some callback to shut things down cleanly. more to think about there.
05:20 < waxwing> s/timeouts/disconnects/ sorry
05:22 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ pushed 5 new commits to develop: https://git.io/vKJVf
05:22 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 1fb7c3c Adam Gibson: Wallet sync imports at least what is in index_cache, reducing number of restarts needed for initial sync in some contexts
05:22 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop ab0b2ea Adam Gibson: fix maxmixdepth in index_cache check
05:22 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 0381405 Adam Gibson: correct condition in which imports were missed, causing potential sync failure (infinite loop)
05:29 < waxwing> the opposite of running a yieldgen? :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4r6q9j/its_real_just_received_an_email_from_my_brokerage/d4yp79l
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13:46 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] nice, lots about JM right at the beginning: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/when-will-bitcoin-finally-get-better-privacy/36321
13:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] wonder what would be the most effective use of my time towards JM to improve its usability for non-techies: help test the electrum plugin or write a tutorial on how to use the python scripts directly (on windows, for low-tech people)
13:52 < waxwing> it seems to be an oft-discussed question alex; not everyone agrees :)
13:52 < waxwing> i'm not really that sure what my opinion is
13:53 < waxwing> and thanks for the Torpey link; he's doing good work
13:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] when i remember my windows using colleagues from back in the day (still an it department...), some seemed to get panic attacks when i say "command line"
13:54 < waxwing> yes, it cannot be underestimated
13:54 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] guess i should check out electrum first, only used armory so far
13:54 < waxwing> it didn't help that for a decade + windows provided such a horrible interface for command line
13:56 < waxwing> electrum is very easy to use. the advantage of having a very serious, hardworking developer committed to it for several years.
13:58 < waxwing> in other news fixing the message channel is not proving very pretty, but it's an inevitable consequence of trying to achieve redundancy with a strict anonymity model.
13:58 < waxwing> "fixing the message channel" = locking it from !fill onwards
13:58 < waxwing> well actually from order privmsg announce
13:59 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] ya, sorry about that ;) Its only a very unlikely attack, but i'm glad you're fixing it
13:59 < waxwing> no, i was thinking about it today, it's really a very big deal
13:59 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] on the good side: havent had any irc crashes since the new update
13:59 < waxwing> because we have to prevent DOS as well
14:00 < waxwing> so even arguments like 'oh it's E2E encrypted' don't count for much
14:01 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] oh right, this could steal transactions and just not complete them. That didnt even cross my mind... i thought more along the lines of an attacker being able to become a maker for nearly all transactions
14:01 < waxwing> yes, i dont' think the current code would be quite *that* bad, but for sure you could gain an advantage
14:02 < waxwing> so there's really three things to worry about: DOS, snooping and preferential order uptake
14:02 < waxwing> hmm, another thought:
14:02 < waxwing> insist that makers use ALL of N message channels agreed upon
14:02 < waxwing> i guess it's just totally impractical, which is why i never took it seriously
14:03 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] how would you agree on the message channels? Also, might there be IRC servers which cannot be accessed from some parts of the world (e.g. china?)
14:04 < waxwing> yeah it's a non-starter, i only even consider thinking about it because it's very hard in an environment where someone can squat your identity elsewhere
14:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] it might be possible to do, e.g. if the taker's !fill message included the servers he intends to use, so an attacker could not know which one(s) the taker requested. Just need to make sure that the first !fill always is on the server on which the taker got the privmsg from the potential maker
14:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] still that'd all be a tough nut to crack
14:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] anyways, gonna play around with electrum a bit later and see if I can be of any use
14:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] for now, afk a bit
14:07 < waxwing> it's already the case that the attacker has to guess who is receiving the !fills; fixing it to 1 of N where N is small isn't much of a win
14:07 < waxwing> ok cya
14:09 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] mh, the attacker could just send a privmsg to any !orderbook request with a slight delay, so he's definately the last. So if he knows the default is 15 sec waiting time, he messages after 12 and would nearly always be the one contaced by a taker, if the taker just uses the "last seen" criteria
14:13 < waxwing> yeah, the current code is crap in that sense, no doubt :)
14:32 < waxwing> it occurs to me that if the taker only chooses 1 message channel, these problems disappear
14:32 < waxwing> makers just would try to be available on as many as possible, and takers can randomly choose 1 for each transaction
14:33 < waxwing> achieves the main goal i had, which was to avoid joinmarket going down when a server goes offline
14:51 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] sounds like a good solution tbh, theres indeed no need for *takers* to use more than one. If it's up, it's up. If it's not, choose the next in the list
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17:26 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] windows: successfully running electrum from source already, but as soon as I try to load the joinmarket plugin, libnacl complains that it cant find libsodium; half an hour of searching the web did not find a solution yet. Continuing tomorrow
18:03 < belcher> im linking around that gist about #156
18:05 < belcher> READ THIS - JoinMarket's privacy is degraded until further notice https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/00255ecfe1bc4984fcf7c65e25aa8b4b
18:06 < belcher> thats bitcointalk, reddit, twitter, irc
18:17 -!- mode/#joinmarket [+o belcher] by ChanServ
18:25 -!- belcher changed the topic of #joinmarket to: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | http://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | friends: #bitsquare #tlsnotary-chat | Live View: http://joinmarket.me/ob | READ THIS - JoinMarket's privacy is degraded until further notice https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/00255ecfe1bc4984fcf7c65e25aa8b4b
18:25 -!- mode/#joinmarket [-o belcher] by belcher
18:25 < belcher> a setback for joinmarket, thats for sure
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18:56 < belcher> maybe it should be added to the github readme page ?
18:56 < belcher> anyway im off now
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20:27 < OverlordQ> still be nice to figure out who the actor is :)
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