--- Day changed Fri Jul 29 2016
00:22 < waxwing> any users still not using the secp256k1 binding?
00:22 < waxwing> (afk for a bit)
00:50 < nkuttler> sometimes when i'm in the wrong virtualenv..
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04:37 < waxwing> nkuttler: pls update at your convenience; found a corner case that broke your bots order announcements. Fixed.
04:37 < waxwing> see https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/171#issuecomment-236158829 if you're interested (but it's not really interesting)
04:43 < waxwing> cool, that looks like it's fixed. i'll try a tx now.
04:43 < nkuttler> \o/ i broke something!
04:43 < waxwing> indeed :)
04:44 < nkuttler> gee, wow.. how many coins did i put in there..
04:44 < waxwing> af511c782513528bdddfce7e61da323f143280a1e7f9c3b75e0eaaf118725ebe
04:45 < nkuttler> doesn't look like i'm in there, it's not in my log
04:45 < waxwing> well there's only 3 bots and i'm running 2 :)
04:45 < nkuttler> hmm
04:45 < waxwing> we know who to ask when testnet coins are needed :)
04:46 < nkuttler> four bots now, i've added a basic yigen
04:46 < waxwing> ok cool thanks
04:47 < waxwing> not in your log?
04:47 < nkuttler> logs/yigen-statement.csv
04:47 < nkuttler> i see a few more satoshis though
04:47 < waxwing> oh ok. just got confirmed
04:47 < nkuttler> oh right, it adds the confirmation time
04:47 < nkuttler> should probably show up sooner or later
04:48 < waxwing> maybe some difference with -deluxe, although i doubt it. can't remember where that code is.
04:49 < nkuttler> i think testnet might not touch the main log at all
04:49 < waxwing> ah. possible.
04:50 < nkuttler> hm. i have a jupyter notebook to generate some stats from that log
04:50 < nkuttler> anyway, i should get some work done
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06:54 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] nkuttler opened pull request #596: Log testnet as well, to different file (develop...develop_testnet_logging) https://git.io/vKpbT
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10:15 < waxwing> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1568048.0
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10:44 < pigeons> such yuk. thanks
11:02 < waxwing> i've been mulling it over and i think we need a significant age minimum as well as a minimum size on commitment utxos. they're just too cheap to provide defence otherwise. example: 100 blocks, 0.05 btc.
11:03 < waxwing> of the two, i think the age is the more important, but without a size limit it's too easy to create a huge number of outputs. arguable perhaps.
11:03 < waxwing> the age gives a rate limiting effect.
11:03 < waxwing> a corollary of this is that the "add commitment from external utxo" feature is more important.
11:05 < waxwing> in analysis it's important to remember that for some  yield generator algorithms it's actually very hard to get the maker to show the whole range of their utxos, especially if the snooper wants all across all mixdepths.
11:06 < waxwing> (i.e. you need to do tons of pretend tx initiations)
11:09 < waxwing> interesting thought: the commitment utxo must be revealed to continue protocol and receive maker utxos, thus in the scenario of an attack, makers can get together and share those utxos, do blockchain analysis and try to identify the attacker.
11:14 < waxwing> although that might end up being impractical/flawed (due to non-attacker utxos), still interesting thought.
12:15 < belcher_> if an attacker splits up their utxos to many 0.05btc chunks, they can only ever get maker's utxos worth 0.05btc or less
12:15 < belcher_> if you make it a condition that the commitment utxo must be worth >= coinjoin amount
12:16 < belcher_> so the attacker would need to own 200btc to get the utxos of those makers that offer up 200btc
12:16 < belcher_> but yes age could be another limiter
12:20 < waxwing> ah conditional on transaction size, interesting belcher_ 
12:20 < waxwing> but no, the taker doesn't have to commit to the tx size before getting ioauth
12:20 < waxwing> i mean he can lie about it
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17:09 < belcher> turns out i forgot to git add test/test_qt_integration.py
17:09 < belcher> so no wonder the test passed!
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