--- Day changed Tue Aug 02 2016
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01:20 < nkuttler> waxwing: ah, that makes sense i guess. what data would you like to see?
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02:44 < waxwing> nkuttler: no need really ; what this shows me is (what should be obvious), that just "can't generate commitment" is no good as a user experience. need to tell the user what the exact situation is: what utxos were tried and why they didn't pass the conditions required.
02:45 < waxwing> so e.g. if you had 1 utxo in your wallet and it was < 5 confirms old, it would tell you that and suggest either (a) wait a while or (b) use add-utxo.py to add an external utxo for commitment.
02:45 < waxwing> i guess i didn't already do it because it's a bit of a hassle to construct an explanation: you have to show the user all utxos that were tried, first in the transaction, then in the wallet, then external ones if they exist
02:46 < waxwing> and for each, explain why they were not acceptable. i think i'll put it in a log file, it'll be too much on screen i think (in some cases)
02:47 < waxwing> btw nkuttler ibar and anyone else testing, please update again in the next day or two, hopefully this is the last protocol-break type update, future ones will just be adding/tweaking features. 
02:57 < belcher_> waxwing: well, unless someone can come up with a better idea, i'll just add a 'hostid' field to the config, which can be the basename of the clearnet server (so cyberguerrilla for cgan, even if coming via onion). annoying but i see nothing else. <----- there is a global network name, look in the 005 server reply where it has stuff like NICKLEN=12
02:57 < belcher_> thats where hexchat gets the names Freenode, CGAN, Rizon and so on
02:58 < waxwing> belcher_: right i was wondering about that, thanks
02:58 < waxwing> makes sense there'd have to be such a thing. does it have a fixed name for all IRC networks?
02:58 < belcher_> every irc network has its own name yes
02:59 < waxwing> no i mean does the field representing the name have a fixed name :)
02:59 < waxwing> heh 
02:59 < belcher_> yes
03:00 < belcher_> they are protocol specified https://www.alien.net.au/irc/irc2numerics.html
03:00 < belcher_> or rather http://www.irc.org/tech_docs/005.html
03:00 < belcher_> its called NETWORK apparently
03:01 < belcher_> i could do the coding for it in 0.2.0 
03:01 < belcher_> maybe tonight
03:02 < waxwing> thanks if you can, yes. let's bear in mind non-IRC too.
03:02 < belcher_> so maybe add an abstract function to MessageChannel something like get_network_name() ?
03:02 < waxwing> i guess a self.hostid variable for any MessageChannel instance may make sense, so could move it there
03:02 < waxwing> ok we're thinking a similar thing :)
03:02 < belcher_> get_host_id() 
03:03 < waxwing> yes seems right
03:03 < belcher_> sorry i didnt get round to the raw_input() add_utxo fix
03:03 < waxwing> np that was an easy one, but ofc do check my work
03:11 < belcher_> afk
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06:42 < nkuttler> eh, exception in secp256k1 after pulling today
06:47 < nkuttler> https://misc.kuttler.eu/error.log
07:13 < waxwing> yes big protocol break. i will shut down my bots, they're behind.
07:13 < waxwing> nevertheless that is good info. that should be caught. thanks.
07:17 < waxwing> ok restarted on f1524951aa4b48b1e3e01444a759922b234a22d1
07:18 < waxwing> nearly done making a "printout" for user explaining situation if commitment can't be constructed, prob push later today or tomorrow.
07:24 < waxwing> hmm, a bit funny that they just throw a general Assertion exception here: https://github.com/ludbb/secp256k1-py/blob/master/secp256k1/__init__.py#L59
07:24 < waxwing> but it's fine, just catch it and fail.
07:25 < waxwing> another DOS vector we had that no one noticed i guess.
07:25 < waxwing> hmm, maybe we didn't with the legacy version.would have to check.
07:25 < waxwing> legacy *con*version i meant.
08:02 < nkuttler> waxwing: should i turn off my bots?
08:03 < waxwing> nkuttler: hmm, doesn't matter too much, if you're on f1524951aa4b48b1e3e01444a759922b234a22d1 then no.
08:03 < nkuttler> ok
08:04 < nkuttler> eh, looks like somebody cleaned up whitespace :)
08:04 < nkuttler> i had to manually pick lines for my pr..
08:05 < nkuttler> or not i guess
08:07 < nkuttler> meh, blockr really errors a lot..
08:11 < nkuttler> dammit, i need to remember to merge my logging changes before doing transactions..
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10:14 < nkuttler> yay, a testnet tx through my yigen \o/
10:15 < waxwing> 'twas me :)
10:15 < waxwing> damn github autocomplete after colon grr
10:15 < waxwing> no i don't want to use your stupid emoticons
10:16 < waxwing> nkuttler: new (non-proto-break) commit writes a diagnostic to a file if you can't generate a commitment. just a heads up for next time you do a taker-side tx.
10:17 < waxwing> curious you have blockr push tx problems i never seem to get that
10:19 < waxwing> example of diagnostic file in here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/171#issuecomment-236975683
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10:47 < nkuttler> cheers, updated
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11:18 < waxwing> hmm, nearly forgot, will patch up that ecdsa_deserialize assert catch now
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12:20 <+JM-IRCRelay> [anon1] How do I see the orderbook?
12:21 <+JM-IRCRelay> [anon1] I tried putting the command in joinmarket-pit, but it just gives me one line of some numbers that I don't quite understand
12:21 <+JM-IRCRelay> [anon1] just wanna know the total fees I would pay
12:21 < waxwing> anon1 you might find the page https://joinmarket.me/ob/ useful, note the "WTF is this?" link :)
12:23 < pigeons> hmm i get 404
12:23 < pigeons> hmm there it goes. ok i clicked the link in the topic
12:23 < pigeons> might want to update it
12:23 <+JM-IRCRelay> [anon1] someone needs to change the reddit link to the https version
12:25 -!- mode/#joinmarket [+o waxwing] by ChanServ
12:26 -!- waxwing changed the topic of #joinmarket to: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | http://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | friends: #bitsquare #tlsnotary-chat | Live View: https://joinmarket.me/ob | READ THIS - JoinMarket's privacy is degraded until further notice https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/00255ecfe1bc4984fcf7c65e25aa8b4b
12:26 <@waxwing> pigeons: thanks
12:26 -!- mode/#joinmarket [-o waxwing] by ChanServ
12:26 < waxwing> i prob screwed up nginx when i renewed LE
12:29 < waxwing> fixed reddit link too
14:11 < waxwing> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tech-bitcoin-aml-exclusive-idUSKCN10D21T
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14:37 < Anduck> https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizardry/mimblewimble.txt
14:39 < pigeons> i worked for them, they did office of foregin asset control compliance for you that conissit of 100% only making sure your name was not muhammad mohammed
14:39 < pigeons> and then chargin you
14:39 < pigeons> poor muhammed mohammed's of the world thugh (there are a lot)
14:40 < pigeons> "bank-grad" is new code for nonsense like "military-grade"
15:02 < pigeons> for all those people lending coins on bitfinex, if only there was a low-risk way to earn while still controlling your coins
15:23 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yup, trade the risk of "exchange being hacked" for "your machine being hacked" :P
15:27 < pigeons> oh, i was thinking maybe use joinmarket
15:29 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] yup, which is basically using a hot wallet as well
15:31 < pigeons> your hot wallet is a hell of a lot safer than bitfinex's hot wallet
15:31 < pigeons> the issue isnt hot wallet, (it might be for bitfinex, but not for the user losing funds) the issue is someone else has your money
15:32 < pigeons> oh sorry though i re-read what you wrote
15:32 < pigeons> i didnt understand at first
15:32 < pigeons> OK
15:32 < pigeons> i think i'm going blind
15:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] no worries, i'm seeing it the same way. Im indeed better at securing my funds&machine than bfx, wonder if that's true for the average JM maker as well though
15:35 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] and i still have (had...) a considerable amount of coins on bfx, because lending rates were really nice 2 days ago; given their track record that was a good risk/reward
15:35 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] risk materialzed... well, d'oh.
15:47 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] loads of big coinjoins a few hours after the hack time (way, way more than usual). Guess I'm even helping to anonymize the coins stolen from others and me
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16:27 < belcher> "We're actively tracking all transactions related to the breach. We've also reached out to all the best firms in the space that specialize in this and are working with authorities as well. " <----- so tracking startups
16:27 < belcher> time will tell then if they're any good at what they do, bitfinex hack related
16:28 < belcher> the thief doesnt seem to have done the "sweep it all to a single address" thing
16:30 < pigeons> betting its "bob the shapeshift.io sysadmin"
16:30 < belcher> shapeshift ?
16:31 < pigeons> yeah did you read vorhees crazy recap when they got hacked?
16:32 < belcher> i think i know the one you mean
16:33 < pigeons> they gt hacked so the sysadmin deletes things and goes to lunch forever never to return. they rebuilt everything and then got hacked again, rebuilt it again in a new location and lost it again. (vnc on a programmer's workstation lol) 
16:33 < belcher> the thief's ethereum kept getting frozen at various exchanges
16:33 < pigeons> yeah so vorhees buys the eth from him
16:33 < pigeons> in order to get some information and the guy says oh it was the sysadmin who did the first hack, who totally isnt me
16:34 < pigeons> vorhees said, well he needed to restock anyway
16:35 < pigeons> it was funny hearing it on radio interview because you knew he wasn't being mis-quoted. but this is good http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/04/25/shapeshift-hack-simply-incredible/
16:35 < pigeons> oh i guess he wasnt being misquoted it was a vorhees blog post in the first place, duh
16:36 < belcher> yeah
16:37 < pigeons> its very nice he was open about everything, its particularly hard to do when its a mess-up like that. but the response was surreal
16:45 < belcher> https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/760615358512312320
16:45 < belcher> i was mentioning before, it shouldnt be too hard to use DNM and bitcoin casino hot wallets to hide this
16:46 < belcher> the bitcoin economy is larger than some might think
16:46 < gmaxwell> if it gets deposited in a DNM in a big chunk, why wouldn't it just get seized by the dnm operator?
16:47 < belcher> from which motivation? because they are the bitfinex thief coins you mean
16:50 < gmaxwell> yes, because they could do so and get away with it.
16:51 < belcher> its possible i guess
16:52 < midnightmagic> I think there is an occasional dnm now that does user+exchange multisig.
16:52 < belcher> i imagine their pattern of deposits/withdrawals are lots of small deposits plus fewer larger withdrawals, so this would be the opposite unless the thief mimics that
16:52 < belcher> midnightmagic but then the bitfinex thief doesnt mix his coins with the rest of the DNM's hot wallet
16:53 < midnightmagic> perhaps an equivalent to a coinjoin with the output of the dnm payouts?
16:53 < midnightmagic> eh, what do I know about dnm. I only read gwern's posts.
16:56 < belcher> if the DNM or casino operator steals large deposits, the thief could deposit in smaller amounts which would closer match how DNMs are normally used, so the thief could do that if they're worried
16:57 < belcher> then the only way they'd have it selectively stolen is if the DNM/casino does coin tracking, its unlikely they've have any code written to do this i think
16:57 < belcher> code written available at short notice
17:09 < belcher> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4vupa6/p2shinfo_shows_movement_out_of_multisig_wallets/d61qyaj
17:09 < belcher> maaku suggesting that bitfinex pay the miners to reorg the chain to reverse the theft
17:09 < belcher> because the theft amount is much larger than the block reward
17:10 < pigeons> hm
17:11 < pigeons> you can imagine the "blockstream controls bitcoin" cries to come from that one though
17:11 < gmaxwell> Attacker can just pay the miners more.
17:11 < belcher> just saw your reply
17:18 < midnightmagic> ah I see belcher already said it.
17:36 < belcher> dooglus's scan using amounts can only account for about 84k stolen coins, nowhere near 120k https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4vupa6/p2shinfo_shows_movement_out_of_multisig_wallets/d61m5rh
17:36 < belcher> positive for fungibility when many of us dont even know yet which coins are the stolen ones
17:48 < pigeons> I wonder if people using places like coinbase will have accounts closed or funds confiscated based on false information
17:49 < pigeons> some of these places just match addresses from an api that returns yes or no from these "analysis" companies
17:50 < belcher> i wonder if "helicopter money" from the thief ever becomes incentivized
17:50 < pigeons> I guess since that already happens, it was a silly question and the answer is yes. But i wonder if it will be large sacale
17:50 < belcher> send a small amount of flagged coins to everyone
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