--- Day changed Sat Aug 20 2016
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03:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] waxwing: thought about the potential "correlation of !orderbook" privacy implications the last few days. I think I was wrong there. There's nothing which can be correlated that actually is of any use to a snoop; mainly because tumbling does, ideally, only use !orderbook once. So never mind what I said about that
03:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] i didnt understand how this makes the sent payment secure in any way:
03:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [waxwing] reversepatientsendpayment - sendpayment immediately, then act as maker for a random while.
03:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] because i send the funds from an adress known to be owned by me, and just after sending the payment I start to be a maker. I dont see how this obfuscates my initial payment in any way?
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05:48 < waxwing> alexcato it was, ahem, a "shower thought", ill formed :) i was thinking about this problem: after tx with 3 ygs they re-announce their cjouts, so the problem is that Taker cjout found by elimination, and what if the taker also publishes/announces his cjout?
05:49 < waxwing> but it's a dumb thought in that if he *actually* was sending that cjout to another party, he wouldn't have it available to announce
05:49 < waxwing> it's just another illustration of the deeper point that it is the distinction in roles between the counterparties which gives rise to the metadata that we are having trouble with
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10:53 < waxwing> using grep "\!fill" *.log | wc -l and checking start/end timestamp gives me a current request rate of about 5 per hour to this maker.
11:04 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] that includes the spammer though, who does requests for each of the different maker's offers. So a yieldgen-basic has far, far fewer than any of the other yieldgens which have multiple offer levels
11:04 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] if you want the real, successful joins, this grep works for me:
11:04 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] grep '\[DEBUG]\ \ earned\ \='
11:05 < waxwing> alexcato: that was the point of it :)
11:05 < waxwing> i wanted a quick measure of spammer rate
11:06 < waxwing> and yes ofc it includes real too
11:06 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] than excluding all the "potentially earned" lines should work, because the spammer does stop before it comes to that step
11:07 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] (but regular joins, even if unsuccessful, do create that line in the log)
11:07 < waxwing> sure (although they don't have to; earlier incarnations went all the way to !sig); is there a one-liner for spammer only? seems it'd be a bit complicated)
11:08 < waxwing> yes. that's not the only unique-to-successful line
11:08 < waxwing> well if you want successful (complete) only, i'd go with "tx in a block" or similar
11:08 < waxwing> ofc it's in the csv then too which is how most people'll keep track of that
11:10 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] from a quick log review, it seems that the spammer tried to hit me 12 times within the last 16 hours (for each offer level). So pretty much about once every 75 minutes, though intervals vary
11:10 < waxwing> oh, that's very few, interesting. it should theoretically be somewhat correlated with real tx throughput
11:10 < waxwing> which yg are you on?
11:11 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [waxwing] well if you want successful (complete) only, i'd go with "tx in a block" or similar <-- my first suggestion does just that. The "debug earned=" i mentioned above is only triggered at 1 confirmation
11:11 < waxwing> oh debug earned=, sorry i wasn't reading carefully, right.
11:11 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] im using my own YG which both blocks snoop attempts (based on simple heuristics) and also does only extremely rarely change offers, like we discussed a few days ago
11:12 < waxwing> yes that's right, you have a custom. so i guess your rate is unique to you.
11:12 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] true, so this doesnt help much
11:12 < waxwing> i just did a bit of jiggery pokery myself :) 'nuff said
11:13 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] used to have a 2nd one to help JM test purposes, but those are currenlty replaced by the testnet-bots
11:13 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] if we move back to mainnet for testing at some point, i'll have a standard-off-the-shelf yg for that again, but indeed, im currently not much use for snooping statistics
11:17 < waxwing> oh of course, no need for a special one liner, just do a subtraction.
11:30 < waxwing> something i keep forgetting about is that randomised utxo selection should help somewhat
11:33 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] that actually makes it worse, cause multiple snoops without any actual joins provide even more info?
11:34 < waxwing> i wouldn't say it categorically makes it worse, but the benefit is debatable, that's for sure
11:36 < waxwing> if the algo is deterministic then there can be scenarios where you'll know that you'll pick up the utxo you're looking for by choosing a certain amount.
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15:50 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] [MCThread    ] [DEBUG]  Failed to send message to: J57CwYnxbXqMHKWU; cannot find on any message channel.
15:50 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] waxwing: is this testnet 0.2.0 message of any interest to you or just a common occurrence if someone left the channel?
16:02 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] btw, i now have more testnet-coins than needed for the JM tests. I cant remember who gave those to me (nkuttler maybe? or someone else?) maybe 2-3 weeks ago. Will send some back, just give me an adress to send them to please
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16:08 < waxwing> alexcato: that was me, i was simulating attack a little bit
16:09 < JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato] great! just let me know if you need any logs
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18:15 < scooch> anyone around here... finally got my core node synced up and setup... all of a sudden it thinks my wallet is empty
18:15 < scooch> searching around, and currently messing with pulling up the wallet with a gap limit of 300... but a little lost here
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23:30 < waxwing> scooch is not here, "rescan"
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