--- Day changed Wed Aug 24 2016
00:07 < fluffypony> has anyone read the BitFury whitepaper yet?
00:08 < fluffypony> https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/the-bitfury-group-issues-new-white-paper-on-shared-send-untangling-in-bitcoin-blockchain-dfdacbf86108#.6jnt0793n
00:13  * waxwing is reading
00:14 < waxwing> about 5 pages in, several things annoying me already :)
00:15 < fluffypony> lol
00:30 < waxwing> ok read most of it, i don't find much of interest there actually, except that they say that for May-July 13.5% of transactions fit their "shared send" definition, which seems dubious.
00:36 < waxwing> no, i'm forgetting their definitions. that isn't strange at all, sorry.
00:39 < waxwing> one could estimate they are seeing roughly 1.2% coinjoins based on : 0.135 * (0.063 +0.025), because their "ambiguous" fits coinjoin as we understand it, and their "intractable" may or may not be. 1% seems too high, but then it's quite reasonable to have coinjoin-conforming transactions happen just by coincidence.
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14:50 < luke-jr> hi belcher. am I doing it right? :P
14:50 < belcher> doing what?
14:50 < belcher> (i only just joined half an hour ago, dont have any history)
14:50 < luke-jr> it's okay, I didn't say anything prior to that
14:51 < luke-jr> belcher: offering joins with no fees
14:51 < belcher> you're free to set any fee you want :)
14:51 < luke-jr> also using a hackd up client
14:57 < grubles> you're killing our profitzzzz luke-jr 
14:57 < luke-jr> lol
15:03 < luke-jr> grubles: just wait until I throw a few hundred BTC into it?
15:03 < luke-jr> jk
15:03 < grubles> as a maker or taker?
15:03 < grubles> if taker.....let me start my yg first :)
15:03 < luke-jr> what's the difference?
15:04 < luke-jr> yield-generator-basic is what I run
15:04 < grubles> a taker is one wanting to join their bitcoin with others 
15:05 < grubles> a maker is offering up their bitcoin to join with the takers 
15:05 < luke-jr> guess just a maker then
15:05 < luke-jr> I don't really care enough to join
15:05 < luke-jr> to me it's a way to get my no-fee txns confirmed via CPFP
15:05 < luke-jr> :D
15:06 < grubles> yeah it makes sending coin cheaper 
15:06 < grubles> \o/
15:06  * grubles cheap bastage 
15:06 < belcher> right now joinmarket has perverse incentives regarding miner fees
15:06 < belcher> basically the taker pays for the entire tx :p
15:06 < luke-jr> well, that's expected
15:07 < belcher> then you also get makers who propose 10-20 utxos
15:07 < luke-jr> :D
15:07 < belcher> and get them combined into one output for free
15:07 < luke-jr> they want the joining..
15:08 < belcher> an idea thats been talked about is for makers to advertise a fee rate they contribute rather than just fee
15:09 < luke-jr> I don't see the point.
15:09 < belcher> seems like perverse incentives
15:10 < luke-jr> if a maker wants to pay for the tx fee, they can just do a negative join fee, eh?
15:12 < belcher> luke-jr that wouldnt be proportional to the tx size
15:12 < luke-jr> hm, I guess
15:13 < belcher> it still needs more thinking
15:13 < belcher> if the maker contributes 20sat/byte and the taker contributes 30sat/byte, the taker doesnt get the rate they need
15:13 < belcher> so they need to add to the fee? or maybe they only join with makers who contribute >30 ?
15:14 < belcher> either way, we'll think about it more after finishing podle
15:42 < luke-jr> hm, someone seems to be trying to get me to double-spend with them
16:06 < midnightmagic> :-D
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