--- Day changed Fri Sep 02 2016
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00:59 < belcher> im barely ever at my computer these day :(
01:26  * nkuttler has no clue
01:32 < fluffypony> I'm a fluffy pony, my hooves can't smack the keyboard fast enough :(
01:34 < gmaxwell> don't you type using magic?
01:36 < fluffypony> lol
01:37 < fluffypony> gmaxwell: that's coming in Pony 2.0
01:40 < gmaxwell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwDzr2plXh0
01:48 < fluffypony> having a dragon do all my typing would be great
01:51 < gmaxwell> even if it can't spell?
01:52 < fluffypony> indubitably!
01:52 < fluffypony> thank goodness for autocorrect
03:14 < belcher_> btw the answer to that guys question is that there's perverse incentives in joinmarket right now which means takers pay far too much miner fees, that combined with the small amount results in the 30% fee
03:30 < waxwing> belcher: well but the simple answer is in the current model the taker pays the fees, and they're about 30c per tx, so for a 10 tx tumbler you would pay $3 + negligible maker fees right.
03:32 < waxwing> i get the point about perverse incentives, but that's more like how we want to improve it in future, especially re: number of utxos maker uses up. i think the maker contribution thing at the moment is kind of not relevant in the sense it doesn't really do much (and arguably shouldn't exist, but i know this is an ongoing discussion)
03:32 < waxwing> but the simple answer suffices here, you pay ~ 3-4 times typical tx fees per tx, so it doesn't really work sub $100 or so.
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23:35 < freekevin> https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/00255ecfe1bc4984fcf7c65e25aa8b4b
23:35 < freekevin> is this still an issue?
23:38 < waxwing> freekevin: yes
23:39 < freekevin> waxwing: whats the solution?
23:39 < freekevin> have the protocol updated?
23:39 < freekevin> whats the time frame for a fix?
23:40 < waxwing> there is a partial solution in the 0.2.0 branch, i've pretty much finished coding on it
23:40 < freekevin> so does this make all coinjoins completely traceable to the spy?
23:40 < freekevin> has anyone determined who the spy is?  
23:40 < freekevin> what ip, whois etc
23:40 < waxwing> freekevin: i think the active spy we have has very good visibility into the joins, difficult to say how close it is to complete.
23:41 < waxwing> well they use Tor of course
23:41 < freekevin> have they been spying since 2015?
23:42 < waxwing> no, there was a brief bit of spying activity ~ Nov 2015, but this started about may 2016 and has been continuous more or less since.
23:43 < waxwing> of course it's only an inference at any stage, what the activity means, or whether it's one actor, etc etc
23:43 < freekevin> cant I block this taker who always partial fills?
23:43 < waxwing> just as ordinary users want anonymous connections, so for the same reason we can't identify and blacklist this one
23:44 < waxwing> feel free to read issue 156 for some more details on why this is hard to avoid
23:46 < waxwing> you can read a little on my blog page about solution, although note it's partial (rate limiting rather than totally blocking): https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/racing-against-snoopers-in-joinmarket-02/
23:46 < waxwing> freekevin: it is possible to tinker around trying to block the spy to your bot via identifying patterns; but you can't assume those patterns of behaviour won't change (and they have in the past)
23:53 < freekevin> waxwing: thank you for the information, worrying to know that privacy has been compromised.
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