--- Day changed Sun Sep 11 2016
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04:35 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ force-pushed master from 66bd67a to 35dc608: https://git.io/vugOH
04:44 <@waxwing> (force push necessary due to divergence; in future please let's keep master and develop in sync)
05:10 <@waxwing> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg16213690#msg16213690
05:25 <@waxwing> ok it's done, channel alert, bitcointalk and reddit; belcher you might want to tweet although there's no rush really.
05:27 <@waxwing> damn there are 150 bots/people in the pit, i didn't realise it was quite that large
05:28 <@waxwing> probably about 120 of them are spies :)
05:35 < sturles> Can I run two bots with the same wallet?  One from the old version and one from 0.2.0?
05:36 <@waxwing> that question has come up a lot over time, i always feel like i don't want to answer it :) because it's not intended behaviour, so it's not supported, albeit i totally understand why people would ask.
05:36 <@waxwing> the problem is you might be grabbing the same "resources" (addresses) at the same time, ugh.
05:36 <@waxwing> maybe others have thought about it more.
05:36 <@waxwing> so my gut reaction is "NO!" :)
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06:10 < sturles> The latest release notes in the 0.2.0 branch is for 0.1.4..
06:13 <@waxwing> sturles: ? https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket links to the 0.2.0 notes?
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06:21 < sturles> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/tree/0.2.0/doc
06:21 <@waxwing> oh that branch, it can be deleted now
06:21 <@waxwing> i merged it into develop and then did the doc updates
06:21 <@waxwing> and develop-master ofc
06:22 < sturles> OK, so develop is the correct branch to use?
06:22 <@waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/releases/ <-- that's always the place for a new release, but
06:23 <@waxwing> in theory we should tell people to always use master, and use develop if they're an active/techy user interested in getting latest updates and accepting there may be bugs here and there
06:23 <@waxwing> but, ofc at point of release master=develop
06:24 <@waxwing> the reason for using a 0.2.0 branch only for a long while is because it was a break in protocol, so it wasn't to be used on main pit
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07:01 < puddinpop> secp256k1_main.py, line 309, in ecdsa_raw_sign
07:01 < puddinpop> TypeError: ecdsa_sign() got an unexpected keyword argument 'custom_nonce'
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07:07 < puddinpop> Requirement already up-to-date: secp256k1-transient
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07:20 <@waxwing> puddinpop: thanks. damn, that's a bad error, it seems that windows secp256k1 is not up to date. i will have to patch it for windows so that it disables the nonce thing (only used for tumbler donation).
07:21 <@waxwing> it's a shame but still got no response on this: https://github.com/ludbb/secp256k1-py/issues/14
07:23 <@waxwing> hmm but hang on: i tested this yesterday on win7 and it worked, i wonder what the difference is?
07:24 < belcher> waxwing tell me what to tweet
07:25 <@waxwing> oh yes, i get it: that exception comes only at the point where a transaction or message is signed, so it would happen on responding to the first !orderbook
07:25 < belcher> something like "joinmarket 0.2.0 released! includes fix for 156"
07:25 <@waxwing> belcher: or just released and link to release notes perhaps?
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07:30 <@waxwing> hmm, the wheel is really old https://pypi.python.org/pypi/secp256k1-transient 0.11.1 only. i'm pretty sure only the custom nonce thing will break it though.
07:32 <@waxwing> puddinpop: if you have a chance, could you do me a favour and try deleting the third argument on line 309 https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/develop/bitcoin/secp256k1_main.py#L309
07:33 <@waxwing> i.e. just newpriv.ecdsa_sign(msg, raw=rawmsg)
07:33 <@waxwing> and see if it works, it should (it would crash for someone trying to run a tumbler with a donation, but would have no other effect)
07:35 < belcher> the tweet will be "JoinMarket 0.2 released! https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/master/doc/release-notes-0.2.0.md ameliorates the snooping attack!"
07:35 < belcher> theres a few characters left if other info should be included
07:38 < belcher> will add "Protocol-breaking change so everyone must update"
07:44 <@waxwing> belcher: thanks
07:48 <@waxwing> btw i've "disabled" (put a warning message) on JMBinary (the Qt binary). won't be usable unless i or someone else decides to update it.
07:50 < belcher> ok
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09:25 <@waxwing> puddinpop: ping
09:34 -!- waxwing changed the topic of #joinmarket to: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | http://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | friends: #bitsquare #tlsnotary-chat | Live View: https://joinmarket.me/ob | Latest release in part addressing #156: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919116.msg16213690#msg16213690, but earlier warning should still be noted: https://gist.git
09:34 <@waxwing> oops too long :)
09:35 -!- waxwing changed the topic of #joinmarket to: Welcome to JoinMarket: Increase Fungibility and Subsidise Your Fees | http://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | friends: #bitsquare #tlsnotary-chat | Live View: https://joinmarket.me/ob | Latest release 0.2.0 in part addressing #156, but earlier warning should still be noted: https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/00255ecfe1bc4984fcf7c65e25aa8b4
10:16 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ opened pull request #609: Windows specific fix to allow bots to run with secp256k1 binding. (develop...secp-windows-fix) https://git.io/vi0da
10:19 < Anduck> nice! thanks jm team, good job
10:28 <@waxwing> today is the first day i've been paying attention to the pit for a while; it's curious that while there's only about 60 bots responding to !orderbook, there's over 150 nicks in the pit. what are the rest all doing i wonder.
10:29 <@waxwing> Anduck: yw, it's going to take a while to get the thing shifted over though, also i wouldn't be surprised if  usage drops off quite a bit, for a while.
10:30 < Anduck> yeah. it's quite complex system. requires some reading before using
10:31 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ closed pull request #609: Windows specific fix to allow bots to run with secp256k1 binding. (develop...secp-windows-fix) https://git.io/vi0da
10:31 < Anduck> before this version that was so, but now  i think even more. but i am sure people will make easy GUIs etc
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10:38 < belcher> waxwing they could be tumblers
10:39 < belcher> or just regular nicks, im in there too
10:39 <@waxwing> oh tumblers, ofc, forgot that. and orderbookwatchers.
10:39 <@waxwing> belcher: btw did you see fungibit's post/analysis?
10:40 < belcher> kind of
10:40 < belcher> he emailed me like a day before he posted
10:40 < belcher> i didnt really get it but i think i see
10:40 < belcher> he links the inputs to the change addresses
10:41 <@waxwing> it's really very good analytical work i think, i was a little dismissive in my initial response, but otoh it is of course not new findings
10:41 <@waxwing> i guess i mainly just was impressed by the code :)
10:41 < belcher> tell him that :)
10:41 < belcher> its good to have people investigating, hopefully he doesnt become discouraged
10:41 <@waxwing> his 54% figure is interesting, but you'd really need to delve into it to find out the real significance
10:42 < belcher> isnt it a knapsack problem
10:42 <@waxwing> no i already wrote another very long response going into the points.
10:42 <@waxwing> belcher: yes or subset sum, but it's an easy one
10:42 <@waxwing> actually andytoshi made an interesting comment to me about that the other day
10:42 < belcher> i guess when you get many inputs to becomes harder
10:42 <@waxwing> consider tumblebit, where you have 800 in/800 out say
10:43 < belcher> yes
10:43 <@waxwing> theoretically subset sum starts to really blow up, but in his opinion NPcompleteness is a bit of a red herring here, unless you have genuinely random distributions
10:44 <@waxwing> i haven't had a chance to really think about what he was saying. anyway for JM there is never going to be an issue with that stuff, unless we start to expand analysis out over bunches of txs perhaps, not sure if that would apply.
10:44 < belcher> doesnt tumblebit use equal sized inputs and outputs? so the 800 in/out are all 0.001btc or something
10:44 < belcher> so at least in his example, subset sum doesnt do anything
10:44 <@waxwing> yes, forgot to mention, the question just occurred to me that what if you did tumblebit with unequal amounts
10:44 <@waxwing> that was the context
10:45 < belcher> yes, it would have the same issues as coinjoin
10:45 <@waxwing> well but different since it's arranged such that numbers are much larger
10:45 <@waxwing> so subset sum *in theory* might get hard.but in reality that might not be possible to arrange.
10:45 < puddinpop> No joins yet with 0.2.0 after 3+ hours of running
10:45 <@waxwing> anyway the basic "classic tumbler" model with equal amounts is probably quite practical
10:46 <@waxwing> puddinpop: did you apply that fix then? i guess you must have :)
10:46 <@waxwing> puddinpop: also, there is no chance of any meaningful volume over the next few days.
10:46 <@waxwing> i'd be surprised if there were anything mroe than a few test txs for the next couple of days, if anything.
10:47 < belcher> yeah i guess makers need to switch over first
10:47 < puddinpop> Well if no one is using 0.2.0, why would makers switch over.  Chicken and egg problem there.
10:47 <@waxwing> i didn't realise joinmarket was quite so addictive :)
10:48 < belcher> yes it similar problems to a hard fork although nowhere near as bad
10:48 <@waxwing> puddinpop: the resolution of the paradox is that the current system is broken. however, if people like it like that, perhaps they will never switch.
10:48 <@waxwing> :)
10:49 <@waxwing> maybe 80% of the users are de-anonymising agents joining with each other and they prefer to stay on the old version :)
10:49 < belcher> well we do have ops in that channel on CGAN
10:49 < puddinpop> Well the last few days have had a lot of joins with the old version, so as a maker the incentive is to stay with the old version if there's next to no joins with 0.2.0.
10:49 < belcher> its way more centralized than bitcoin itself so we could just /kick them out :p
10:50 < belcher> dont worry, takers will come, they are paying for privacy so they'll pick the best possible kind
10:50 <@waxwing> puddinpop: quite, understood. although i'm joking, it's also actually true: if people like the old version that much, it's hard to change.
10:50 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] domob1812 opened pull request #610: Add gaplimit option for yield generators. (master...yg-gaplimit) https://git.io/vi0Fh
10:50 < belcher> waxwing instead of "old versions not compatible" it might be worth saying like "old versions are broken"
10:51 <@waxwing> belcher: feel free to change the wording, yeah that makes sense
10:51 < belcher> ok
10:52 < belcher> too bad iv been so not available last few weeks, waxwing you've basically done this entire 0.2.0 yourself
10:52 < belcher> well im sure others helped but i didnt really
10:52 <@waxwing> belcher: i get that you're busy, don't worry :) but it is a shame there isn't more eyes on this stuff. at least, some people helped with testing quite a bit.
10:54 < belcher> :)
10:55 <@waxwing> belcher: did we really not have gap limit for yieldgen? re PR just seen.
10:56 < belcher> idk
10:57 <@waxwing> never mind will check it out later.
10:57 < belcher> im thinking how we had problems with lots of unused addresses being used up in yieldgenerators
10:57 < belcher> and people needed a high gap limit to find their coins
10:57 < belcher> so you'd think they could configure gap limit in ygen somehow but i guess maybe not
11:08 <@waxwing> not much more than an offhand thought, but: https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/51vwy0/jm_transaction_has_same_address_among_inputs/d7ifvgr
11:09 < belcher> i thought maybe the taker used create-coinjoin-tx.py or whatever its called
11:11 <@waxwing> create-unsigned-tx.py? oh i forgot now, how does it get the change address
11:12 <@waxwing> oh you just set it
11:12 < belcher> yep
11:12 <@waxwing> so yeah that's a reasonable possibility
11:12 < belcher> the maker thing is more likely IMO
11:12 < belcher> create-unsigned-tx.py presumably means you care about your privacy
11:13 < belcher> so then takers should check their UTXOs if they contain any history of doing dumb stuff with coinjoins
11:13 <@waxwing> also if i could be bothered i would have checked the amounts to see if it was taker or maker
11:13 <@waxwing> it's part of the huge issue of how do you vet your counterparty
11:13 <@waxwing> almost by definition it's hard precisely if/because the system works :)
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11:17 <@waxwing> simply setting mixdepth=1 wouldn't cause that btw. because get_internal_addr called twice in sequence, different addresses.
11:23 <@waxwing> i might post a gist with a subset sum solver snippet for txs .. damned if i'm going to do it with a calculator :)
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14:28 < arubi> congrats on the release!
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16:33 < sturles> My yield-generator-basic.py running with default fee settings just did two transactions at a loss.  My contribution to the txfee was higher than the fee I made.
16:33 < sturles> That shouldn't happen?
16:33 < sturles> Never happened pre 0.2
16:35 < sturles> Looks like minsize was changed.
16:36 < sturles> It used to be a function of cjfee_r, assuring minsize would be large enough to make a profit.
16:40 < sturles> Should probably add txfee to the default cjfee_a, and add txfee / cjfee_r to the default minsize.
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17:30 < OverlordQ> Yeah, just noticed the same
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18:05 < pxs> I'm sure its been asked but what is going on with joinmarket right now? it doesnt seem to work in v0.2.0
18:05 < pxs> One thing I see is a lot of "cmd not in cmd_list"
18:06 < pxs> another thing is that when a send finally does become ready, it fails with Exception in PaymentThread,
18:06 < pxs> line 91, in select_utxos
18:06 < pxs> Does joinmarket currently work for sending for anyone?
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18:52 < puddinpop> Still 0 joins with 0.2.0 as maker running for 12+ hours now.
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21:01 < OverlordQ> puddinpop: I've had a few
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23:01 < BoBeR182> Hello
23:02 < BoBeR182> I currently use my bitcoin-qt as my main wallet. If I start running a yield bot from it, will It just start using the full balance
23:02 < BoBeR182> Do I have to separate my money away from it.
23:03 <@waxwing> sturles: ouch that was a really terrible mistake. deleted it here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/commit/340b32b50f178b711806c31afba340cc33a95620#diff-0bcdba6c62af8e26a6012223336d22cbL192 and didn't pick it back up.
23:07 <@waxwing> i didn't forget in the yg-pe case: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/master/yg-pe.py#L46
23:07 <@waxwing> seems i was not careful enough in refactoring *-basic. Probably too much of an attitude of "if it passes the test it must be OK", which is a long way from true...
23:10 <@waxwing> pxs: the "cmd not in cmd list should be normal while the old bots are running. as for the exception in select_utxos, it would help if you showed us what exception? one reason that can happen is if there's no funds in the wallet.
23:20 <@waxwing> had 4  txs so far on my own bot
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