--- Day changed Sat Sep 17 2016 01:41 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:54 <@waxwing> arubi: thanks 02:55 < adlai> pls to voat brigade https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5361pn/psa_how_to_restore_bitcoins_fungibility_with_this/ 02:55 < arubi> cheers waxwing , I'm going over it some now, seems I missed some cases, but generally if the "user doesn't make any mistakes" it works :) 02:58 * adlai did exaggerate with "nobody is using the new protocol", but it's reddit, only hyperbole and clickbait will penetrate 02:58 < adlai> i've seen a bunch of transactions on the new protocol already, but i suspect the majority of clients are still on the old 02:58 <@waxwing> adlai: i think the issue is more about getting users (ie Takers) to switch; it's very understandable that they are likely to be slower, they are not as engaged as Makers, plus many of them were using "side-loaded" joinmarket like TAILS installs and -Qt and whatnot. 02:58 < adlai> waxwing: right, which is why my post is aimed at them 02:59 < adlai> (and posted to /r/Bitcoin, where i imagine more of the casual users are located) 02:59 <@waxwing> seems like we're about 1/2-1/2 on the yg side, although that's very vague, difficult to measure 02:59 < adlai> http://adlai.uncommon-lisp.org:62601/ still runs on the old version 02:59 <@waxwing> yeah i'm not sure that "no one is using" is going to encourage people. no one wants to be a guinea pig :) 03:00 < arubi> ha 03:01 * adlai adds a clarification edit 03:01 <@waxwing> part of what's weird about this is that people have developed behaviour patterns, it's not like the old days where we were all just experimenting. i'm more inclined towards a natural evolution approach. 03:01 <@waxwing> adlai: good title though :) 03:01 < adlai> ehehee thank you 03:02 <@waxwing> i wonder if they are really "startups" now though. i guess they are, but i'd bet they probably have some revenue flow already. 03:02 < adlai> honestly i was on the verge of screeding about how it is morally wrong to still provide liquidity on the old version, but... money is money 03:02 <@waxwing> yes, i totally get the tension there; but it's rooted in the deeper, thorny question of: how difficult it is to evaluate the quality of the service being offered. 03:04 <@waxwing> adlai: re branch deletions, yeah i've whined a bit about that before, but leery of deleting other people's branches, see comment here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/116#issuecomment-247314295 03:04 <@waxwing> i agree we should try to keep discipline of no feature branches on main repo, confusing to users 03:05 * adlai agrees 03:05 < adlai> develop is fine, but master should be the default; and long-lived 'feature' branches should be in the developer's repo 03:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 03:08 <@waxwing> adlai: fifth? hmm. i had 20 transactions (although none last day/2 for some reason). anyway, details. volume is low for now, that seems clear. 03:08 * adlai mutters something about clickbait 03:09 * waxwing suspects it's being upvoted for the title mainly :) 03:11 <@waxwing> i'd quite like to spend some time tinkering with TumbleBit, but i guess i'll finish up my work on a fast-sync mode today, ie. back to the developer equivalent of cleaning the toilets :) 03:11 < adlai> what's fast-sync? 03:12 <@waxwing> adlai: see the link here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/611#issuecomment-247583445 03:12 < adlai> danke 03:14 <@waxwing> done a bunch of testing already, the short version is, you can get all the necessary info. fast if you assume that imports are not needed, and index_cache is up to date. so i've knocked something together that makes that assumption and run tests on it, looks to work well. the issue is, if you are running a "non-up-to-date" scenario, either because you don't have an up to date index_cache or, most likely, you are on a new Core instance without imports 03:14 <@waxwing> , then you have to fall back to the current 'search' approach. 03:16 <@waxwing> somehow or other in the complicated "fixing" i did back in (May?) to make sure that the "search" approach can complete in 1 or 2 run-throughs, it ends up taking a long time even for that up-to-date case, at least sometimes. 03:16 * adlai thinks a little... something seems wildly off. the common case (yg ran for a while, used more addresses than addr_req_count, so thrice that much need to be imported) still shouldn't result in importing the count of addresses in the entire wallet. 03:17 < adlai> something stinks of O(n^2) here 03:17 < adlai> i'll bet a bitcent that we're importing the same addresses over and over. 03:17 < adlai> (plus a couple new ones at the end) 03:19 <@waxwing> i agree. the old algorithm basically ensures you get up to date whatever the circumstances, but in doing so, it's tricky to avoid doing unnecessary work. 03:20 < adlai> if you're already working on this i won't duplicate your efforts 03:20 * adlai is itching to cannibalize fungibit's work into cjhunt 03:20 <@waxwing> yeah that'd be a good idea. iirc the "find joins on the blockchain" part was not in the repo was it? (i vaguely remember it was treated as an input). 03:21 < adlai> which one? 03:21 <@waxwing> the fungibit repo? 03:21 < adlai> cjhunt finds joins as the blocks roll in, but doesn't do any subset summing yet (i have unpublished code for this, but it's not all hooked together yet); fungibit parses history to find coinjoins 03:22 <@waxwing> ok. 03:22 <@waxwing> arubi: if you're looking for a tester, maybe this guy is willing? https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/531nbd/is_the_latest_joinmarket_working_on_tails/ 03:25 < adlai> so i'd be comparing his subset sum solver to mine, probably throwing out the latter and copying the former 03:25 < adlai> although technically... i believe we're dealing with unbounded multiple knapsack, which is slightly more general than subset sum 03:26 < adlai> unbounded = all weights are positive, multiple = there are multiple knapsacks (equal to the number of change addresses) 03:27 < adlai> sorry, equal to nr change addresses for sweeps, equal to one less for sends. the taker is all the remaining outputs 03:27 < adlai> interestingly, this approach doesn't cover negative maker fees 03:27 < adlai> since that would mean you're looking for packings that overflow each knapsack 03:27 < adlai> (or some of them... but how many? etc) 03:29 < adlai> this isn't a magic bullet against solving for linkages, since you could just watch the market, find the greatest negative fees ever used, and periodically snoop those makers to get a sense of their tx volume 03:30 < adlai> you wouldn't need to catch every single tx, this would be more just to rule out makers that offer crazy negative fees to mess up the knapsack solving, but don't ever sign their transactions 03:30 * adlai stops working for the enemy, showers instead 03:38 <@waxwing> btw "(yg ran for a while, used more addresses than addr_req_count, so thrice that much need to be imported)" <- this doesn't apply, since all new addresses are imported automatically when you call get_new_addr. If you don't switch wallets or Core instances, no new import should be needed on sync. 03:39 < adlai> well it is. 03:39 * adlai does a ~30k address resync on a ~weekly basis, running wallet-tool 03:40 <@waxwing> right, because the current algo is wrong (or rather, profoundly sub-optimal :)) 03:40 < adlai> it's got me thinking about a 'minimum mixdepth' option, so you could skip the heavily used ones but still use the same seed 03:41 * adlai has actually implemented an initial version of this, if anybody wants to help massage it into something publishable... 03:41 < adlai> it's pretty shit atm, uses different CLI args for each script >_< 03:41 <@waxwing> i honestly think a "fast" mode works fine; done experiments on regtest and my mainnet wallet that at least strongly suggest it, and i can't see why not. the only tricky thing is deciding how to allow non-fast happen automatically. 04:20 < arubi> ah okay waxwing, will post the link once I figure out something with the check dependencies function.. 05:45 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 05:58 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@27-245-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@27-245-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #joinmarket 06:11 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ opened pull request #612: add fast sync option for Core wallets (develop...newsync) https://git.io/viP1M 06:13 <@waxwing> github has some new "PR review" process, hopefully we can just continue as before, it seems to be more an organization tool for bigger teams deciding to approve/disapprove PRs. 06:26 < arubi> waxwing, I'm the guy who referenced you in that thread just now 06:26 < arubi> (tails script for jm) 06:26 <@waxwing> ok got it arubi , thanks 06:27 <@waxwing> to all: if you have a large wallet please try this out: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/pull/612#issuecomment-247769402 06:27 <@waxwing> and let me know if (a) it's fast and (b) it reports balance correctly 06:29 <@waxwing> weird but the coverage badge never seems to update any more. 06:30 < arubi> says "Coverage increased (+0.8%) " ? 06:30 <@waxwing> yeah it's nothing, i just mean the badge in the README (not that it should of course change from a PR, but the current code is at 82% not 80%) 06:31 < arubi> readme shows 82% for me 06:34 <@waxwing> arubi: ah ok thanks, that must be it; stale jpeg link or something 06:34 < arubi> np 06:40 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@27-245-11.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@204.187.100.19] has joined #joinmarket 07:31 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 07:46 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@27-245-11.connect.netcom.no] has joined #joinmarket 08:20 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] domob1812 opened pull request #613: Add gaplimit option for yield generators. (master...yg-gaplimit) https://git.io/viPH9 08:20 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] domob1812 closed pull request #610: Add gaplimit option for yield generators. (develop...yg-gaplimit) https://git.io/vi0Fh 08:23 <@waxwing> heh, try again :) 08:32 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] domob1812 opened pull request #614: Add gaplimit option for yield generators. (develop...yg-gaplimit) https://git.io/viPQ8 08:32 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] domob1812 closed pull request #613: Add gaplimit option for yield generators. (master...yg-gaplimit) https://git.io/viPH9 08:46 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ pushed 2 new commits to develop: https://git.io/viPQN 08:46 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop c97cf4e Daniel Kraft: Add gaplimit option for yield generators.... 08:46 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 8d00f9c Adam Gibson: Merge pull request #614 from domob1812/yg-gaplimit... 09:14 -!- fqtw [~me@x4db2b1d2.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18 <@waxwing> re: branches on repo: i'm not going to delete master-historical or gui (strictly i could that one), belcher (not here now) you could delete electrum-plugin, newprotocol, broadcaster and check-dup-utxo , but i won't do it on the off-chance there's code there that you don't have anywhere else. 09:19 <@waxwing> the issue partly arose because we "hot-linked" (whatever that's called) the original chris-belcher repo to the new joinmarket-org one, i remember that. 09:19 <@waxwing> oh check-dup-utxo is an open PR although a very old one 09:31 <@waxwing> cgan is down, would be cool if we could use other servers .. oh wait we can :) 09:31 <@waxwing> (as usual "down" means more "you can't get in") 10:40 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iowsnovaxqskyfkh] has joined #joinmarket 11:08 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 11:36 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #joinmarket 11:38 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] CohibAA opened pull request #616: minsize option not honored, bugfix (master...patch-18) https://git.io/viPhS 12:13 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] CohibAA closed pull request #616: minsize option not honored, bugfix (master...patch-18) https://git.io/viPhS 12:18 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] CohibAA opened pull request #617: minsize option not honored, bugfix (develop...patch-20) https://git.io/viPjC 12:18 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] CohibAA opened pull request #618: minsize option not honored, bugfix (develop...patch-19) https://git.io/viPjl 12:35 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ pushed 2 new commits to develop: https://git.io/viXek 12:35 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 5effddb CohibAA: minsize option not honored, bugfix... 12:35 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 6b7c826 Adam Gibson: Merge pull request #617 from CohibAA/patch-20... 12:42 <@waxwing> adlai: lol: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5361pn/psa_how_to_restore_bitcoins_fungibility_with_this/d7ql89t 12:49 < fluffypony> LOL 12:53 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ closed pull request #618: minsize option not honored, bugfix (develop...patch-19) https://git.io/viPjl 12:55 <@waxwing> anyone tried #612 yet? 13:03 <@waxwing> linking instructions again: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/pull/612#issuecomment-247769402 14:28 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 14:54 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@204.187.100.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:59 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@95.211.187.223.adsl.inet-telecom.org] has joined #joinmarket 15:00 -!- grubles [~grbs@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01 -!- grubles [~grbs@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 16:12 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@95.211.187.223.adsl.inet-telecom.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:03 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iowsnovaxqskyfkh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:15 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@204.187.100.19] has joined #joinmarket 19:21 < trustiee> I haven't been able to do a single successful send in 0.2.x 19:21 < trustiee> its pretty frustrating 19:22 < trustiee> every sendpayment times out, "makers didn't respond" 19:22 < trustiee> I've been trying all day 19:31 < trustiee> "nonresponse to !fill" 19:32 < trustiee> What could I be doing wrong? am I the only one having this problem? 19:32 < trustiee> I have tried sending from multiple mix depths, waiting for many confs before using a utxo for the first time... 20:30 -!- ajvpot is now known as haterade 20:31 -!- haterade is now known as ajvpot 21:04 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upchjwuqyoijfnjx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:27 -!- trustiee [~smuxi@204.187.100.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00 <@waxwing> damn, would have been really useful to get more information from 'trustiee', even if just what OS 23:01 <@waxwing> i've seen 5 blocked join attempts on my bot so far, they are specifically 'verify_podle failed' which is the least likely of 4 different reasons for it being blocked... 23:49 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afzgyjniqsswprmc] has joined #joinmarket