--- Day changed Mon Nov 07 2016 00:09 <@waxwing> interesting discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5bizrb/1block_confirmation_fee_estimates_are_absurdly/ 00:10 <@waxwing> is it feasible that certain miners have decided to artificially perturb fee estimators to pull in more revenue? it seems unlikely 00:10 < gmaxwell> Bitcoin core's fee estimator is designed to be fairly robust to crap like that 00:11 <@waxwing> gmaxwell: i always tell people not to use estimatefee 1 ,but that's about the limit of my knowledge 00:11 <@waxwing> (i.e. that it tends to be very high and they probably don't need it) 00:11 <@waxwing> of course sometimes it just gives -1, but that's a different question 00:53 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@62.90-149-73.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:37 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-amndriljvxezdqkn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:05 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrlgzvmlmvabyfww] has joined #joinmarket 03:22 -!- windsok [~windsok@45.63.59.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23 < Anduck> https://anduck.net/bitcoin/estimatedfees.txt 03:24 < Anduck> i should update this to show the version too. and a couple other fixes 03:24 < Anduck> wording.. etc 03:34 <@waxwing> yup. i'm getting 1 million for estimatefee 1 now. what's going on? 03:34 <@waxwing> i hope absurd_fee_per_kb is working... 03:34 <@waxwing> and 62K for estimatefee 2 :) 05:39 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 06:24 < raedah> waxwing: "that doesn't alter the fact that i have that income stream without having to doing any work for it" value of the income stream was factored into the buying price when you aquired it 06:25 <@waxwing> yeah, it's a fair counterargument, if we look at something as just free market. not sure it'd apply to something like land, but in this context: good point. 06:25 < raedah> and at the time of creation, in a hybrid PoS/PoW system, future worth incentive is part of the PoW cost 06:29 <@waxwing> not sure about hybrid, seems complicated to understand, but pure PoS i think the costless simulation counter-argument is pretty strong 06:29 < raedah> as an ends, PoW and PoS themselves secure the chain, so beyond anything being .. deserved, the incentive provides security. In the case of PoS, its securing a stake holder vote on the valid chain and protecting the community from inevitable miner centralization controling the chain. 06:30 < raedah> yeah, Im not a fan of pure PoS because of what you mention, which creates a lack of security. 06:31 <@waxwing> honestly i don't buy that PoS does provide security, in an anonymous network. it just seems like a fundamental misunderstanding to me. 06:32 < raedah> allows the community to hardfork the chain without PoW miner consent 06:35 < raedah> another factor that can be in PoS systems is having your funds locked up for a period of time, so you are actually paying forward opportunity cost to accrue interest. 06:37 < raedah> in hybrid, PoS acts as a veto over PoW. 07:41 -!- megaddin [aladdin@gateway/shell/fnordserver.eu/x-nroxxmsxsnjurcel] has quit [Quit: https://fnordserver.eu] 07:42 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jgltbmfsapayfjon] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:42 -!- zmanian____ [sid113594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hhiqaucswzfvpkcs] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:43 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vrlgzvmlmvabyfww] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:43 -!- q-biq [q-biq@unaffiiliated/q-biq] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:45 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tykeicbnvdhovbjx] has joined #joinmarket 07:45 -!- zmanian____ [sid113594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctgdweobnuquhglt] has joined #joinmarket 07:45 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zewodfzhphqgnbhi] has joined #joinmarket 07:49 -!- q-biq [q-biq@2a00:1a28:1157:1f8::583a] has joined #joinmarket 07:49 -!- q-biq [q-biq@2a00:1a28:1157:1f8::583a] has quit [Changing host] 07:49 -!- q-biq [q-biq@unaffiiliated/q-biq] has joined #joinmarket 08:16 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zewodfzhphqgnbhi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhwyokbgpkjevnxv] has joined #joinmarket 09:47 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhwyokbgpkjevnxv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:46 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idxixcedxfipcdxs] has joined #joinmarket 11:22 -!- owowo [ovovo@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-yavnffflcmltyatz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:24 -!- owowo [ovovo@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-eesgnexftnadgctu] has joined #joinmarket 14:07 -!- joinador [b52fe611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.47.230.17] has joined #joinmarket 14:20 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 14:40 < belcher> the miner fees in wallets really should be a bit like the coinjoin fees in joinmarket, "it will cost , y/n?" 14:41 < belcher> since markets ultimately rely on human decision so eventually they have to ask the human 19:15 -!- joinador [b52fe611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.181.47.230.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@62.90-149-73.nextgentel.com] has joined #joinmarket 21:07 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idxixcedxfipcdxs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:12 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19 -!- megaddin [aladdin@gateway/shell/fnordserver.eu/x-nwswnjorbndbjgme] has joined #joinmarket 22:02 <@waxwing> yup, electrum does that iirc 22:35 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmbptvdexwdqmusp] has joined #joinmarket 23:02 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket