--- Day changed Wed Dec 28 2016
00:16 < waxwing> belcher: yeah there was a long saga about that. came out of a back and forth between me and raedah.
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06:16 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] adlai pushed 1 new commit to develop: https://git.io/vMTBN
06:16 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 9d7ff70 Adlai: Fix gaplimit defaulting in yieldgenerator.py
06:50 < waxwing> just to update people on https://github.com/AdamISZ/joinmarket-clientserver and https://github.com/AdamISZ/electrum-joinmarket-plugin :
06:50 < waxwing> for the former, it has sendpayment and tumbler (although i'm kind of merging the roles of these a bit) working; see scripts/README.md for instructions on usage
06:51 < waxwing> the daemon/client interaction and the IRC are now all using twisted instead of threads
06:51 < waxwing> the test suite is pretty thorough now
06:52 < waxwing> the plugin is working (well, it was before), i'm just trying to boil down the install as much as possible. i find i can get it working on a fresh ubuntu vm fine by just taking the release from each repo and running now. if anyone tries to run it as per the README let me know how it goes
06:53 < waxwing> although there are still lots of bits and pieces to improve, i think i'll get Joinmarket-Qt back working, because in theory i think it'll be fairly easy.
06:54 < waxwing> oh another thing, although it's "client/server", the scripts can be run as one process (client and server just run together), it's controllable as a config var, explained in the readme for the scripts
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07:17 < fqtw> how much are the tumbling fees with joinmarket?
07:33 < waxwing> fqtw: the fees charged by counterparties are generally ultra-small, but consider that a typical bitcoin transaction is 200-400 bytes and a typical JM tx is 1kB-2kB; so the bitcoin transaction fees are *usually* a much bigger cost. there is no one answer i'm afraid.
07:34 < waxwing> oh fqtw btw i wrote a paragraph about this topic in the tumbler page on the wiki, a few months back.
07:34 < fqtw> waxwing: is it like 1% of the btc amount?
07:34 < waxwing> see ^
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08:29 < pigeons> fqtw: depends but maybe closer to 0.05%
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08:29 < pigeons> but as mentioned, the bitcoin transaction fees will be higher these will be larger transactions than non JM
08:34 < fqtw> pigeons: but the fee is a percentage of the btc amount, not a fixed fee?
08:35 < pigeons> the joinmarket taker can specify either way, and the bitcoin fees are per kB
08:35 < pigeons> *maker
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11:11 < JM-IRCRelay> [belcher] testing the bot
11:28 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] adlai pushed 1 new commit to develop: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/commit/8f4d8d58d209b6484bf1968ca570d4c82ede004d
11:28 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 8f4d8d5 Adlai: Fix global reference to ordertype
11:29 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] adlai pushed 1 new commit to develop: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/commit/250eedf4c1ec1daa4d1d7c2654ed400cad68c237
11:29 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 250eedf Adlai: Fix more global references to ordertype
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12:14 < waxwing> ok joinmarket-qt.py in scripts/ in that repo is working now, on regtest at least :)
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13:10 < belcher> waxwing what will it look like roughly? similar to the joinmarket-qt script from before?
13:12 < waxwing> oh yeah for sure; it *is* mostly the same thing. just tweaking it for the new backend.
13:12 < waxwing> right now i'm implementing schedules in it (already have it in the sendpayment), so you can do a sequence; not quite tumbler, but sort of most of the way to it
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13:13 < waxwing> there's already a tumbler.py there that does *basically* what we have now, but i don't think recovery is working.
13:14 < waxwing> i'm thinking, along the lines of that github issue, that it might be good to restart by dynamically regenerating a schedule. but anyway not really a priority right now.
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14:20 < belcher> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5kquko/welcome_to_paypal_20/ <--- some website that appears to analyse how tainted addresses are?
14:20 < belcher> just finding a few of my joinmarket addresses to see what they say
14:26 < owowo> more customers for us
14:26 < owowo> not that real bitcoiners would care where the coin comes from.
14:27 < belcher> yeah im about to write about that
14:27 < owowo> but it's a fun game to play ;)
14:28 < belcher> my comment https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5kquko/welcome_to_paypal_20/dbqe5ia/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=api&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Bitcoin
14:29 < owowo> I found an address from mixdepth 3, it's "clean"
14:30 < waxwing> now i want to try. is this a trick to gather our addresses? :)
14:30 < belcher> "Address not part of a Mixer (Anonymizer) " it says for me...
14:30 < belcher> could be
14:32 < waxwing> hmm address that has only received one utxo = "fresh, unused". ok i'll try an older one.
14:32 < belcher> yeah i got that as well..
14:32 < belcher> "no history"
14:32 < owowo> VC money scam.
14:34 < waxwing> my guess is they're not properly synced/indexed. i can't get anything from it for various addresses.
14:34 < waxwing> owowo: yes pretty much, *almost* by definition :)
14:34 < belcher> anyone read the valueshuffle paper ?
14:35 < owowo> yes, found on that they do not know, it's still beta they say
14:35 < waxwing> only in brief, i mentioned it in wizards yesterday
14:35 < owowo> also "Our Partners" Microsoft
14:36 < waxwing> well not even in brief, just skim. it seems a bit out there for now. was chatting with ethan about it, i don't think he knew that we're a bit of a way off from CT practicability. he seemed to think that we'll find small range proofs now that there's incentive. but, doesn't seem to be an easy thing.
14:36  * owowo googles valueshuffle paper
14:36 < belcher> https://people.mmci.uni-saarland.de/%7Etruffing/papers/valueshuffle.pdf
14:37 < belcher> they refer to "stealth addresses" which i thought we agreed not to use that name 
14:37 < waxwing> eragmus posted it on reddit a short while after i mentioned it in wizards, which was several days after ruffing posted it on twitter, kind of strange, i think maybe not many people are following him.
14:37 < belcher> since it become awkward to VC-backed companies when they explain to their compliance manager that they just implemented this thing called "stealth addresses"
14:37 < waxwing> i think coinshuffle++ is really interesting, i got a fair way towards getting on top of that, but it's complicated stuff.
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15:35 < belcher> README.md says "sudo apt-get python-pip" but it should be "sudo apt-get install python-pip"
15:35 < waxwing> i remember that being fixed. is it only in develop, maybe
15:36 < belcher> it is fixed in develop :)
15:37 < waxwing> yeah, there were 1 or 2 minor fixes a month or two back to the readme
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16:01 < juscamarena> Meh, checked a few all showed as fresh except one.A mixdepth 4 address showed as clean. They just want moneyyy
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