--- Day changed Sun Jan 01 2017
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00:46 < adlai> belcher: you can always do a join with yourself for principal / n_makers+1 coins
00:46 < adlai> J54QCblabla, you're so far gone it's funny
00:47 < adlai> how even
00:47 < adlai> i     
00:47  * adlai      
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07:32 < belcher> opened issue #693 about the duplication of offers problem
07:33 < belcher> henceforth known as the issue #693 problem :p
08:53 < belcher> hey waxwing adlai grubles how many UTXOs do your yield generators have in their wallet?
09:43 < belcher> google images "merkle tree" also gives you a photo of angela merkle next to a christmas tree
09:45 < arubi> google's AI making jokes? :)
09:46 < arubi> wonder if it'll get the same picture not during christmas season
09:46 < belcher> hey arubi how many utxos does your yield generator wallet have?
09:47 < arubi> ashamed to say zero.  not running it for a long time now :(
09:47 < belcher> ah ok
09:51 < belcher> i think iv come up with a good scheme for solving issue #693 using sorted merkle trees https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/eb9abe417d74a7b5f20aabe6bff10de0
09:52 < belcher> waxwing adlai arubi gmaxwell and anyone else whos interested ^
09:52 < belcher> might post it on #bitcoin-wizards too a bit later
09:52 < belcher> bbl now
09:52 < arubi> ooh cool, reading
09:59 < belcher> let me know if something needs rewording to make it clearer
10:01 < arubi> belcher, "For example proving the membership of element 1", though 0 and 9 are the leafs?
10:01 < belcher> yes     
10:02 < belcher> hopefully the diagram makes that clearer, i find drawing seems to explain it easier than writing words, or not
10:02 < arubi> is that suppose to mean "one element", or the number 1 ?
10:02 < belcher> ah, the number 1
10:03 < belcher> wait, dur
10:03 < arubi> but the number 1 isn't one of the leafs at all
10:03 < belcher> that should be number 0
10:03 < arubi> ah I thought I was missing something fundamental :)
10:03 < belcher> i s/1/0/ earlier since later i prove that 1 isnt contained
10:03 < arubi> the second one is right
10:03 < arubi> yep     
10:11 < belcher> sometimes this stuff feels like all those kludgy 'fixes' for PoS and BU
10:11 < belcher> on the other hand im not trying to scam anyone so
10:16 < arubi> I do wonder if weird things happen when you make everyone sort their otherwise random data, then be able to /somewhat/ query it, say a spy might coinjoin, then without intention to broadcast at all, query (ask to prove non ownership) the makers about some (valid) txid, trying to make them reveal another one for the proof.
10:16 < belcher> yes thats an issue
10:17 < belcher> im hoping the podle solution to #156 at least rate limits that
10:17 < belcher> but needs more thinking about yes
10:17 < belcher> its an inherent conflict between what the taker must know and what the maker must know
10:17 < arubi> right, really comes down to who signs last
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10:47 < quitobro> hey guys :)
10:47 < quitobro> happy new year!
10:47 < quitobro> so i just started running a yield generator
10:47 < quitobro> can anyone let me know where they've set their fees for yield gens?
10:48 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] it's at the beginning of the yield generator script that you started
10:49 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] just edit that file with any text editor. Should be obvious which values you can adjust
10:50 < quitobro> @AlexCatol yea, i saw that and checked them before running the script. i just want to make sure i'm not pricing myself out of the market. so far there's no output from the script, just the initial 'connecting to irc/host' etc. stuff
10:52 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] yeah, there's _very_ little activity today. Might take a few hours. To see the other maker's offers, you can check https://joinmarket.me/ob/ or use the ob-watcher.py script
10:52 < quitobro> ah great thanks Alex :)
10:53 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] no prob!
11:00 < quitobro> is there a public slack group or anything else for asking questions to the community?
11:01 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] nope, just this IRC / reddit / github
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11:33 < quitobro> what's the relationship between cjfee_a and cjfee_r
11:33 < quitobro> and txfee as well i suppose
11:37 < belcher> if ordertype is reloffer, then cjfee_r is used
11:37 < belcher> if ordertype is absorder, then cjfee_a is used
11:37 < belcher> txfee is the makers contribution to the miner fee
11:37 < belcher> yes it could use some better explaination i know
11:38 < owowo> comments in the code ftw ;)
11:38 < belcher> its on my short term todo lost
11:38 < belcher> s/lost/list/
11:39 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] i've described it a little bit better (i think) in that yieldgen. Uses the same variable names: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/custom-scripts/blob/master/yield-generators/yg-randomizer.py
11:40 <+JM-IRCRelay> [AlexCato1] feel free to steal, I can also create a PR if you prefer that
11:45 < quitobro> another thing i've noticed is... after playing around with the fee sizes, i've ended up a couple of times at this error when re-starting the YG
11:45 < quitobro> 2017-01-01 19:44:57,422 [MainThread  ] [ERROR]  You do not have any coins left. Cannot be an active maker with no funds.
11:45 < belcher> minsize depends on fee
11:46 < belcher> so if minsize is higher than the actual money you put in it will say theres no money
11:46 < belcher> its on the todo list already to make those messages clearer :p
11:46 < quitobro> okay cool thanks
11:46 < quitobro> which version of yg script is 'best' as my starting template would you say
11:46 < quitobro> basic.py or yg.py
11:48 < belcher> i personally use basic these days
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13:39 < belcher> just ran wallet-tool history when i had an unconfirmed coinjoin and it displayed it as "cj sweepout" -big number
13:40 < belcher> didnt know it could do that, almost had a heart attack, luckily ran it again and its fine
13:55 < waxwing> belcher: i'm ill at the moment so kind of not doing anything, but great to see you working on that problem :)
13:56 < waxwing> bout two weeks ago peter todd posted this link in wizards: https://github.com/proofchains/python-proofmarshal/blob/master/proofmarshal/merbinnertree.py
13:56 < waxwing> and it piqued my interest because he was saying something similar about ordering in a tree (with k-v pairs), proving non-set-membership
13:57 < belcher> my sympathies, get well soon
13:57 < waxwing> excerpt: Dec 15 12:46:14 <waxwing>       huh, this is interesting, so you can prove non-membership of a key in the tree? how compact is that?
13:57 < waxwing> Dec 15 12:48:47 <petertodd>     /away
13:57 < waxwing> Dec 15 12:49:03 <petertodd>     waxwing: O(log2 n)
13:57 < waxwing> Dec 15 12:49:30 <petertodd>     waxwing: basically, you just need to show that when you go down the tree in the particular path defined by the key, that path doesn't end in that key
13:57 < waxwing> Dec 15 12:49:48 <petertodd>     that's why it's a k:v tree rather than just a merkle tree
13:57 < belcher> ah yes
13:57 < waxwing> sorry i haven't got round to reading your thing but i will do so once my brain is fresher
13:58 < belcher> that would work too..
13:58 < belcher> my way does it with a sorted merkle tree that also can prove non-membership
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14:00 < belcher> theres also the problem of convincing the taker that any commitment is actually valid
14:01 < waxwing> yeah i kind of gave up thinking about it, i couldn't see a reasonable way for it to work but tbh i can't remember anything now.
14:01 < waxwing> heh hopefully other people have more lucid thoughts than that :)
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14:15 < waxwing> belcher: earlier question: 29, pretty long running, i use algo=greedy.
14:16 < belcher> ty     
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15:39 < Rix> Hi, I was wondering if there is some issue, I think blockr is not working/updated or sth?
15:40 < Rix> And if there is an alternative way to use joinmarket besides blockr.io or running full node?
15:51 < weex> rix you can use a pruned full node
15:53 < Rix> oh sure, thanks a lot
16:02 < grbs> well a pruned node basically eliminates the issue of storing the entire blockchain 
16:27 < weex> still need to sync it up so need 100gb of download but yeah, less storage anyway
16:34 < belcher> Rix apparently the reason blockr doesnt work is because it's ssl certificate is out of date
16:34 < belcher> you could make it work by opening joinmarket/blockchaininterface.py and find-and-replace "https" with "http"
16:35 < Rix> grbs weex - yes wonderful
16:36 < Rix> belcher, thanks, I know about the SSL issue, but I think it was fixed and blockr was working earlier, but now if you open the website and check the main page - latest transactions are from 8 hours ago
16:36 < belcher> ah     
16:36 < belcher> thats another problem, yes theres nothing you can do about that...
16:36 < Rix> so when i run wallet-tool it sees old stuff :)
16:36 < Rix> yep     
16:37 < belcher> its happened two or three times before in the last 18 months or so
16:37 < Rix> and thanks to all for the info :) see ya and have a good day/evening
16:37 < Rix> bye for now
16:37 < weex> belcher: is there any reason a jm user might want the full chain on disk? just curious if one of the scripts might want that
16:37 < belcher> weex no there is no reason
16:37 < weex> k cool
16:37 < belcher> designed like that on purpose, so pruning can work
16:38 < belcher> on the "running joinmarket with a full node" wiki page theres some tips about using pruning, like how to rescan
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