--- Day changed Tue Feb 14 2017 00:04 < adlai> how about using sendpayment -N0 to other addresses in the same JM wallet? 00:07 < waxwing> how about it? are you asking if it works adlai ? 00:08 < waxwing> oh for commitments? 00:08 < waxwing> sure 00:08 < adlai> half that, half suggesting it's use - yes, to generate fresh commitments without requiring another walet 00:08 < adlai> obviously it shouldn't be automated, otherwise people will show up complaining we're donating all their coins to miners 00:09 < waxwing> interesting thought; before i did direct-send, i also made a small 'sendmany.py' script for the purpose of spreading to make lots of commitments 00:09 < waxwing> it's still there in cmttools/ , i guess nobody's using it. 00:10 < waxwing> makes more sense to add it as an extra option to the direct_send function, i.e multiple destinations 00:10 < waxwing> another motivation for people to take both Joinmarket roles though - once you've been running a yieldgen for a while, you never struggle for commitments :) 00:13 < adlai> that's better, more efficient use of fees 00:13 < waxwing> yeah; splits amounts tho' 00:14 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:54 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #joinmarket 00:54 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #joinmarket 01:15 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has joined #joinmarket 01:18 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has joined #joinmarket 02:05 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33 < waxwing> i only just noticed #702, are there any comments? looks like an easy one to review 03:50 -!- DeathShadow--666 [~IDSE@S0106a84e3f595813.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51 -!- DeathShadow--666 [~IDSE@S0106a84e3f595813.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #joinmarket 04:18 < waxwing> we could add a !hp2 count graph to the ob-watcher. just a thought. 04:51 -!- iriaa [b9b76853@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.183.104.83] has joined #joinmarket 04:54 < iriaa> Hi 04:55 < waxwing> hi 04:55 < iriaa> What are the recomanded arameters for the tumbler? 04:55 < waxwing> the defaults are OK-ish for most contexts 04:55 < waxwing> there are some (very old) comments in the file about it 04:56 < iriaa> Becasue 2 time i try to use it to time i get error no suffisiant fund 04:56 < iriaa> see on the log 04:56 < iriaa> my uxto are too old and can't be reused 04:56 < iriaa> OK-ish? 04:57 < iriaa> it is not in the help 04:57 < waxwing> that's two different things, but "utxos too old" - have you looked at commitments_debug.txt? is it recorded there that the utxos are already used? 04:57 < waxwing> re: comments, see https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/develop/tumbler.py#L640-L652 (but from the sound of it, this isn't your concern right now) 04:57 < iriaa> yes it is in my commitments_debug.txt 04:58 < waxwing> so all utxos are in the first list, "used too many times"? 04:58 < iriaa> the uxto are to old and my finds are never go in the destination adress 04:58 < iriaa> yes 04:58 < iriaa> funds* 04:58 < waxwing> ok, you have a few options 04:59 < waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/wiki/Sourcing-commitments-for-joins <- make sure you read this 04:59 < iriaa> Yes it is done 04:59 < waxwing> you can always make new utxos by just spending coins to yourself; you can use sendpayment.py -N 0 (it doesn't do a coinjoin, it just sends a bitcoin transaction). you can spend to another address in the same wallet. 04:59 < waxwing> or, you can source external utxos as described there. 05:00 < iriaa> i have sourced from a send to many from elecrum 05:00 < iriaa> run the tumbler 05:00 < waxwing> but, i wonder if something more is going wrong: when you first tried to run the tumbler, did you get a different kind of error? 05:00 < waxwing> what value of -N did you use for the tumbler? 05:00 < iriaa> I have reimpotde my key in electrum and resend them in the wallet 05:00 < iriaa> 5 05:01 < waxwing> ok, -N 5 should be fine. is the bitcoin amount very small or very large? (i know, hard to say, but using tumbler for < 0.2 btc or so is a bad idea, although it works - it's very expensive, and for > 20-50 btc you might not get enough other participants) 05:02 < waxwing> sorry i don't really understand "reimport key and then resend them in wallet" .. that sounds confusing 05:02 < iriaa> around 3 05:02 < iriaa> btc 05:02 < waxwing> well that should never really be a problem, i think 05:03 < waxwing> so again, the *first* time you tried the tumbler, did you get a different kind of error, or only this commitments error? 05:03 < iriaa> i have import my private key from joinmarket in electrum, then send the coin on 3 new adress in my joinmarket wallet 05:03 < iriaa> sorry for my bad english 05:03 < waxwing> hmm, ok, let me think about this. it would be much simpler to just use -N 0 to send directly from one address to the other in joinmarket. 05:04 < iriaa> there was 2 message but i don't remeber exactly 05:04 < waxwing> there is also a sendtomany.py tool which does what you want (sends to multiple addresses), but same thing. 05:04 < iriaa> ok i do that last time :) 05:04 < waxwing> ok, let's rewind a step. have you done 1 coinjoin successfully at all, before? 05:04 < iriaa> yes 05:05 < iriaa> the tumbler work and the coinjoin are done but the trabsaction never go to the end 05:05 < iriaa> transaction 05:06 < waxwing> you mean, not *all* the transactions completed, but some of them did? 05:06 < iriaa> first time get some coins in 2 of my 3 destination address 05:06 < iriaa> second try, just some join in the internal wallet and no coins in the destination 05:07 < waxwing> ok. 05:07 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has joined #joinmarket 05:08 < waxwing> in future i wouldn't import keys from JM to electrum, that makes things a bit more complex (because JM still thinks it owns those addresses). 05:08 < waxwing> just use -N 0 you can send coins without doing a coinjoin 05:08 < iriaa> ok I have read about -N 0 but i was not suire it does not do a coin 05:09 < iriaa> join* 05:09 < waxwing> ok, now you know. for debugging your current situation you might find 'python wallet-tool.py showutxos' helps 05:10 < waxwing> so you can see exactly which utxos are in the wallet are in the wallet, how big they are and how old they are. but the problem here seems to be they're all used up. 05:10 < waxwing> and since each utxo gives you 3 commitments, something else must have gone wrong to get them all used up. 05:11 < waxwing> i did a full tumbler run on sunday night without having these problems; the system ought to be working. i used -N 5 1 I think. 05:11 < waxwing> but that was based on the new codebase, so that's a bit of a delta. 05:12 < waxwing> if you want to try it in future you can read about it here https://github.com/AdamISZ/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/scripts/tumblerguide.md#tweaking-the-schedule ; but for now it'd be best if you knew why your commitments were being used up. 05:12 < waxwing> do you still have the logfile from when you started? 05:18 < iriaa> python wallet-too.py showuxto show only one uxto ^^ 05:19 < waxwing> and presumably that's the same one that is in commitments_debug.txt? 05:20 < iriaa> yes 05:20 -!- MaxSan1 [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 05:22 < waxwing> yeah, i guess it was used up 3 times in an attempt, the question is why the tx failed (at least) 3 times. could you figure out the parameters of the transaction that was tried? it'll be in the logfile, although hard to find. there may have been something special about it. with minimum_makers = 2 and if N was at least 4, it's unlikely but possible that you got non-responsive makers 3 times in a row. 05:23 < waxwing> if it's a sweep that makes it more likely, as sweeps can't fallback (sorry i know this is very complex..) 05:23 -!- MaxSan [~one@213.152.161.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:23 < waxwing> as of right now, you need more commitments. you could do sendtomany.py to split that utxo into, say, 3 utxos at 3 new addresses, and then restart. 05:26 < iriaa> exactly what i am doing 05:26 < iriaa> thank you 05:27 < waxwing> np, don't forget you have to wait for 5 confs also (although if you don't it'll just quit before using them up, so no worries) 05:28 < iriaa> yes i know 05:30 < iriaa> thanks for help 05:30 < iriaa> Heu 05:31 < iriaa> what about the port into python3? 05:33 < MaxSan1> hmmmm 05:33 < MaxSan1> why would joinmarket think a transaction is sent 05:33 < MaxSan1> but there be no record of the txid or address on any blockchain 05:37 < MaxSan1> waxwing: is there a place the tx is stored? 05:37 < MaxSan1> that i can rebroadcast? 05:37 < waxwing> MaxSan1: probally gonna need more info than that :) 05:37 < MaxSan1> as im sure it finished but didnt send out 05:38 < waxwing> iriaa: python3, not aware of any work on that right now 05:39 < iriaa> ok 05:39 < iriaa> the EOL of python come soon... 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MCThread ] [INFO ] all makers have sent their signatures 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MCThread ] [INFO ] txid = 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MCThread ] [INFO ] created fully signed tx, ending 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [TimeoutThrea] [INFO ] timeout thread woken by notify(), makers responded in time 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MCThread ] [INFO ] disconnected from irc host CgAn 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MCThread ] [INFO ] ending irc 05:39 < MaxSan1> 2017-02-14 [MainThread ] [INFO ] Shutting down all connections 05:39 < MaxSan1> done 05:40 < MaxSan1> but txid nor address has anything 05:40 < iriaa> but i think all the lib used by joinmarket are already ported in python3 05:40 < MaxSan1> where is the tx so i can rebroadcast it 05:40 < iriaa> never see that 05:40 < waxwing> yeah that is .. quite something ... 05:40 < waxwing> "txid = " 05:40 < waxwing> which blockchain interface? 05:43 < MaxSan1> i deleted it ¬_ 05:43 < MaxSan1> because its a public chat 05:43 < waxwing> oh lol 05:44 < MaxSan1> lol 05:44 < waxwing> yeah so ... which script? maybe scrub-log.py it if we can't figure out what happened 05:44 < waxwing> as described, it's not something i've encountered before 05:44 < MaxSan1> sendpayment.py 05:45 < MaxSan1> just a regular tx 05:45 < waxwing> again though, which blockchain interface? 05:45 < MaxSan1> looks like it built and just ddnt publish 05:45 < MaxSan1> what do you mean? 05:45 < MaxSan1> ohhhh 05:45 < MaxSan1> bitcoind 05:46 < waxwing> hmm. maybe search 'AddToWallet' in bitcoin's debug.log or better, search for that txid in there? 05:46 < iriaa> so if you had the txid you can use whatever you wand to bradcat it 05:46 < iriaa> broadcast 05:46 < waxwing> well, the raw tx, not the txid :) but yeah 05:46 < MaxSan1> yeah iam looking for raw tx 05:46 < MaxSan1> i have txid 05:47 < MaxSan1> but i just duno what JM does with it 05:47 < MaxSan1> once its built 05:47 < MaxSan1> that is essentially the q 05:47 < waxwing> it just does an rpc sendrawtransaction 05:48 < waxwing> MaxSan1: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/master/joinmarket/blockchaininterface.py#L857-L866 05:48 < waxwing> are you saying you can't even see the rawtx hex in the backscroll or log file? that would be very weird 05:48 < MaxSan1> erm il check 05:49 < waxwing> failure to push can come from invalid inputs (see 'txn-mempool-conflict' sometimes or some 'invalid inputs' error) 05:50 < MaxSan1> erm 05:50 < MaxSan1> i will have broken not only my JM but every counter party too i think 05:50 < MaxSan1> cause if they have this TX and altered internal wallet to what it expects... it wont ever confirm? 05:51 < waxwing> i don't think so, but before that, what do you see? 05:51 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-114-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:51 < waxwing> if a counterparty sent you an invalid input, then that counterparty is already broken. and until the other counterparties see a tx on the network, they don't update their internal state. 05:52 < waxwing> which they won't, if push fails. but .. all this is weird, can't say without seeing scrubbed log at the least, or otherwise you explain what you see. 05:53 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-165-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:53 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-165-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:53 < MaxSan1> ok i dont have time for this right this second but cant i ask one more question 05:54 < MaxSan1> if im the one who initated the payment the counterparties dont have a copy of the final tx? 05:54 < MaxSan1> so there is no way it might appear later 05:54 < MaxSan1> if not il just resend 05:54 < MaxSan1> and reimport the wallet or something 05:54 < waxwing> i mean, counterparty's utxos(inputs) are validated before constructing the transaction of course, but sometimes there is a "race" going on where a counterparty is doing two tranasctions at the same time, only the first to "arrive" on the network will succeed, the other can fail 05:54 < waxwing> fairly rare unless things are busy 05:55 < waxwing> MaxSan1: of course they have a copy - they had to sign it! :) 05:55 < MaxSan1> I thought if i put sendpayment I would get the final one :P 05:55 < MaxSan1> unsigned by me... until i want to broadcast 05:55 < MaxSan1> no? :P 05:55 < waxwing> sorry i'm saying the wrong thing - they have a copy of the *unsigned* transaction 05:56 < MaxSan1> yes so only i can really broadcast it? 05:56 < waxwing> so yeah you're right, only you ave a *valid* transaction to broadcast 05:56 < MaxSan1> ok awesome :P 05:56 < MaxSan1> il resend then haha 05:56 < waxwing> unless you set the tx_broadcast option in the config, then you get someone else to broadcast it. 05:56 < waxwing> but that's turned off by default, by default it's just you 05:58 < waxwing> yeah but as i said, there is a race. if you wait 4 hours to broadcast it, there's a good chance it'll be invalid, because your counterparties will have continued doing joins. 05:58 < waxwing> it's critical to the system that they don't "lock" their coins until they see the broadcast on the network; if they "locked" them immediately, it leads to a trivial DOS attack where someone proposes a lot of transactions and locks all the makers coins' 05:59 < MaxSan1> i dont care fuck it 05:59 < MaxSan1> dont matter now hah 05:59 < MaxSan1> also blockexplorer just made me shit myself with some crazy noise ive never heard before 05:59 < waxwing> it'd be nice if you just told us some more info about what's in the log :( 05:59 < MaxSan1> thats it 05:59 < MaxSan1> im out 05:59 < MaxSan1> lol 05:59 < MaxSan1> i will 05:59 < MaxSan1> later 05:59 < MaxSan1> im stressed now 05:59 < MaxSan1> :D 06:00 < waxwing> MaxSan1: ok :) no worries 06:04 < MaxSan1> WTF 06:04 < MaxSan1> blockexplorer just detected it now?! 06:04 < MaxSan1> was propogation that bad? 06:04 < MaxSan1> 10 minutes?! 06:05 < waxwing> MaxSan1: you just discovered the ugly reality :) but, in my experience, up to a minute (or two?) can happen, 10 is almost certainly just some slow server thing 06:05 < waxwing> i've definitely seen it take a minute between different nodes and block explorers before 06:05 < MaxSan1> i checked two different explorers 06:06 < MaxSan1> 13:33 / 14:06 06:06 < MaxSan1> that is over 30 mins 06:09 < MaxSan1> ugh 06:10 < waxwing> never saw that. maybe 2 bad block explorers? :) your own node is usually a good source of info. 06:11 < MaxSan1> weird as hell 06:11 < MaxSan1> thing is though 06:11 < MaxSan1> nvm 06:22 < MaxSan1> lets try this one more time... and I wont resend it this time :P 06:36 < MaxSan1> instant this time 06:36 < MaxSan1> i blame this building 06:36 < MaxSan1> weird, sorry for the stress 06:41 -!- MaxSan1 [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:07 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-165-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 08:10 -!- quitobro [640c6e95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.12.110.149] has joined #joinmarket 09:57 -!- quitobro [640c6e95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.100.12.110.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09 < waxwing> i posted this: https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/5u1typ/alternative_implementation_of_tumbler_and/ 10:47 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@62.90-149-73.nextgentel.com] has joined #joinmarket 12:11 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 12:51 -!- iriaa [b9b76853@gateway/web/freenode/ip.185.183.104.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:12 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: UTXOatemycoins 13:12 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: vcxxcv, nightcity, zxccxz, xpub 13:13 -!- Netsplit over, joins: UTXOatemycoins, nightcity, zxccxz, xpub, vcxxcv 13:15 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: vcxxcv, UTXOatemycoins, nightcity, zxccxz, xpub 13:16 -!- Netsplit over, joins: UTXOatemycoins, nightcity, zxccxz, xpub, vcxxcv 14:33 -!- HostFat__ [~HostFat@host103-250-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 14:36 -!- goregrin1 [~goregrind@unaffiliated/goregrind] has joined #joinmarket 14:36 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37 -!- sturles_ [~sturles@ulrik.uio.no] has joined #joinmarket 14:37 -!- sturles_ [~sturles@ulrik.uio.no] has quit [Changing host] 14:37 -!- sturles_ [~sturles@unaffiliated/sturles] has joined #joinmarket 14:38 -!- Buckyy [buckowski@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-thmaslyojvrwornz] has joined #joinmarket 14:39 -!- malte- [w0iMuaJtlw@2a00:d0c0:200:0:b9:1a:9c2c:3c0] has joined #joinmarket 14:41 -!- core_ [~core@ilya.xxx] has joined #joinmarket 14:43 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: core, sturles, pigeons, belcher, HostFat_, goregrind, malte, puddinpop, buckowski 14:43 -!- core_ is now known as core 14:43 -!- core [~core@ilya.xxx] has quit [Changing host] 14:43 -!- core [~core@unaffiliated/core] has joined #joinmarket 14:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: pigeons 14:43 -!- sturles_ is now known as sturles 14:43 -!- pigeons is now known as Guest21635 14:47 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: waxwing, viasil, ratoder, adlai, espen____ 14:47 -!- Netsplit over, joins: adlai 14:50 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 14:51 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 14:52 -!- Netsplit over, joins: waxwing, ratoder, espen____, viasil 14:53 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 14:58 -!- Guest21635 is now known as pigeons 15:27 < belcher> waxwing maybe flair your thread on reddit? 15:28 < belcher> 'annoucement' i guess, ill just do it 16:27 -!- puddinpop [~puddinpop@unaffiliated/puddinpop] has joined #joinmarket 16:35 -!- cluelessperson [~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22 < weex> Thinking about providing a paid utxo API. How big is the utxo set anyway? 17:24 < belcher> you mean a mapping from txid:index to amount/address/confirmations ? that API is available for free on blockchain.info and many other places 17:24 < weex> 1.64 gb 17:25 < belcher> as for the size.. calculating it now (gettxoutsetinfo takes some time) 17:25 < weex> But it's rate limited and not particularly Tor friendly 17:25 < weex> Statoshi has it 17:26 < weex> 1.64gb you could resync but still kind of big 17:26 < weex> Rsync * 17:27 < weex> Maybe for each address you could request buckets of 1000s around it for anonymity 17:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 18:00 < belcher> gettxoutsetinfo returned, its 1762031360 bytes with 17251766 transactions 18:10 < weex> I feel like someone must have come up with a way to request info needed to build payments while minimizing privacy loss. 18:12 < belcher> theres discussion on the github 18:12 < belcher> its an active area of thinking about.. in fact im working on an email to the bitcoin dev mailing list right now 18:12 < belcher> probably the top place to start https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/55 18:38 < weex> i like to think about incentives and there should be a way to have reliable apis by paying a little btc 18:41 < belcher> how do you know they're not spying on you 18:41 < weex> assume they are 18:42 < weex> somewhere between one utxo and 1.64 gb is a bigger anonymity set 18:42 < weex> this is all for the tails use case anyway 18:43 < weex> which is probably a bigger concern over time... the blockchain is growing forever 18:43 < weex> though i do hope that mimblewimble can help shrink it 18:43 < weex> among other things 18:47 < belcher> this should do for tails users https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/653 18:51 -!- HostFat_ [~HostFat@host175-240-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 18:54 -!- HostFat__ [~HostFat@host103-250-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-165-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #joinmarket 19:04 -!- Rix_ [~rix@bnc.vps.bg] has joined #joinmarket 19:05 -!- liead [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #joinmarket 19:06 -!- emzy_ [~quassel@2a03:f80:ed15:158:ba27:ebff:fe5d:813c] has joined #joinmarket 19:06 -!- wump [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/wumpus] has joined #joinmarket 19:07 -!- Rix [~rix@unaffiliated/rix] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07 -!- emzy [~quassel@unaffiliated/emzy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08 -!- wumpus [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/wumpus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08 -!- Rix_ is now known as Rix 19:08 -!- Rix is now known as Guest51499 19:08 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 20:25 -!- cluelessperson [~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson] has joined #joinmarket 20:43 -!- nightcity [5999b126@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.153.177.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@194.187.251.155] has joined #joinmarket 23:13 -!- UTXOatemycoins [adb29011@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.178.144.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]