--- Day changed Thu Feb 23 2017
01:12 < waxwing> fwiw i checked, we don't have that copay bug
02:13 < Anduck> whoa
02:14 < Anduck> i guess i need to update the range some day. adding some new stuff too --when i get to it
02:35 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.155] has joined #joinmarket     
03:07 -!- vcxxcv [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has quit [Quit: Page closed]     
03:16 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]     
03:28 -!- xcvvcx [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has joined #joinmarket     
03:39 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.155] has joined #joinmarket     
04:22 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]     
04:58 -!- birrou [5ef2de6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.242.222.110] has joined #joinmarket     
04:58 < birrou> hello guys
04:59 -!- malte- [w0iMuaJtlw@2a00:d0c0:200:0:b9:1a:9c2c:3c0] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]     
04:59 < birrou> does anyone undersand well how total cj fee is counted?
04:59 < birrou> i made a wipe send with N 2
05:00 < birrou> txfee of joiners were 10 and 0
05:01 < birrou> and 'cjfee': u'0.00005' and 'cjfee': u'0.00002'
05:01 < birrou> how the total cj fee becomes 25 ?
05:02 < waxwing> birrou: basically the fee you pay is 0.05% + 0.02% - 10 ; then + you pay the bitcoin transaction fee
05:04 < birrou> 0.07% is calculated from coinjoin amount?
05:04 < waxwing> yes     
05:04 -!- malte [Vo7mFnHi95@2a00:d0c0:200:0:b9:1a:9c2c:3e0] has joined #joinmarket     
05:05 < waxwing> which in the case of a sweep (i assume you meant that from 'wipe'), is calculated dynamically based on the total value of your inputs, and the fees of your counterparties.
05:05 < birrou> let me check with a calculator now
05:09 < birrou> exactly, wipe :] sorry
05:09 < birrou> almost understood but. have a look please
05:09 < birrou> total_input_value = 455691
05:10 < birrou> totalin=455691 my_txfee=93622 makers_txfee=10 cjfee_total=25
05:10 < birrou> cj amount bacame 362044
05:11 < waxwing> right, which gives ~ 25 after apply 0.07% ; obv satoshis are then rounded to nearest satoshi.
05:11 < birrou> 455691 - 93622 -25 - 10 becomes 362034
05:11 < birrou> who made me a present of 10 satoshi
05:12 < waxwing> you shoudn't - 10 from your input, because that 10 is not part of your input
05:12 < waxwing> it's the contribution from the maker. (heh, "contribution", very generous!)
05:14 < birrou> unfortunately it is not really clear who contributes and to whom
05:15 < birrou> if you have an idea how to explain in some other way I would try to understand otherwise you have already helped me
05:15 < waxwing> think of it this way, we're figuring out what your final output is (your coinjoin output, you have no change output in a sweep)
05:15 < waxwing> to figure that out, we have to figure out what *you* pay, and subtract that from your total input
05:16 < waxwing> you're paying 93622 as a miner fee; what others add to that miner fee is separate from your calcs, right
05:16 < waxwing> you also pay a coinjoin fee; in this case that becomes 25 after we figure out the coinjoin amount, because we know it's 0.07% of whatever the coinjoin amount ends up being.
05:17 < waxwing> you can see that this has to be worked out in a loop, because at the start of the calculation, we don't actually know what the coinjoin amount is (this is a specific problem for sweep, for non-sweep the coinjoin amount is fixed at the start)
05:18 < birrou> yes, indeed
05:18 < adlai> can we can txfee yet?
05:19 < birrou> bingo!
05:19 < birrou> Fees 	0.00093632 BTC
05:19 < birrou> exactly 10 satoshi difference
05:20 < birrou> so that 10 satoshi what market paid to caver a part of the bitcoin tx fee
05:20 < waxwing> adlai: we "can" do a lot of things :) i agree, but other fish to fry. also i think belcher has a slightly different perspective fwiw.
05:21 < adlai> birrou: according to the accounting you're doing, you pay both my_txfee and makers_txfee
05:22 < birrou> but now I see that my_txfee was 10 satoshi less that tx costs in real
05:22 < adlai> effectively the txfee field lets makers cause takers to pay higher fees, although it's done in a transparent manner (you can avoid makers that have high txfee, or lower your own fee configuration to compensate)
05:22 < waxwing> adlai: you're just going to confuse him :) the way it is described has internal logic, even if it's valid to look at it another way...
05:22 < birrou> 10 satoshi was a "contribution" from makers to pay bitcoin fee
05:25 < birrou> as waxwing mentioned above it is no an abvious thing in case of a wipe payment to understand coinjoin amount as it is to be calculated )
05:25 < birrou> i see now that many makersbroadcast 'txfee': 0
05:26 < birrou> they just dont want to contribue to bitcoin tx fee, right?
05:26 < waxwing> birrou: part of the point adlai is making is that, in a sense, it doesn't matter.
05:26 < waxwing> you could "fold in" the txfee part into their overall coinjoin fee, if you think about it.
05:26 < waxwing> so in a sense, it's kind of a "dead" part of the information; your own bot will calculate the *overall* cost to you, and make a decision on that basis.
05:28 < birrou> i understood. i just wanted to understand better how txfee and cjfee (that broadcasted) will affect my total expenses. now it is clear
05:29 < waxwing> ok, cool
05:29 < birrou> this project is great btw. unfortunately it will never go to mainstream unless there is an easy "windowed" interface. IMHO
05:30 < birrou> for now it is a perfect professional instrument
05:30 < birrou> but for takers an easy interface wanted
05:30 < birrou> i mean for mass
05:30 < birrou> again, it is IMHO
05:31 < waxwing> well, on the window part, i built a joinmarket-qt for sendpayment, but then disabled it after protocol change. now there is a new one i'm working on at https://github.com/AdamISZ/joinmarket-clientserver/scripts (see joinmarket-qt.py)
05:31 < birrou> i do not understand why nobody had an idea to make interface to create "easy 123 mixer"
05:32 < waxwing> on the 'perfect' aspect, unfortunately there is still at least one quite important issue to address around sybil actors, we're looking at it (see issue 693 in the https://github.com/joinmarket-org/joinmarket)
05:32 < birrou> you do a great job to make and maintain a stable console solution
05:32 < waxwing> and a number of other things - of course!
05:32 < birrou> sure
05:33 < birrou> ok. thank you guys for helping out. i will definetly keep a look at your Qt and spread a word about cjm
05:33 < birrou> have a good day
05:37 < waxwing> ok np. btw i meant https://github.com/AdamISZ/joinmarket-clientserver/tree/master/scripts of course :)
05:46 -!- birrou [5ef2de6e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.242.222.110] has quit [Quit: Page closed]     
06:25 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]     
06:25 -!- coins123_ [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has joined #joinmarket     
07:38 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket     
07:46 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]     
07:46 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-146-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket     
08:56 -!- coins123_ [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has quit []     
08:56 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket     
10:04 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit []     
10:08 -!- samtron [5999b126@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.153.177.38] has joined #joinmarket     
10:15 -!- buckowski [buckowski@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-irrchzrekpladuut] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds]     
10:19 -!- buckowski [buckowski@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-dbwdgfpxopoiytze] has joined #joinmarket     
10:50 -!- stachrom [d4338865@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.51.136.101] has joined #joinmarket     
12:06 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]     
12:08 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has joined #joinmarket     
12:09 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2052:1591:3d03:a939] has joined #joinmarket     
13:05 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:2052:1591:3d03:a939] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
13:22 -!- stachrom [d4338865@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.51.136.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]     
13:54 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e45b:e39f:6d5c:f4b3] has joined #joinmarket     
14:04 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e45b:e39f:6d5c:f4b3] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
14:11 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:fcb4:b0c5:ca61:cf84] has joined #joinmarket     
14:14 -!- cbits_ [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:38cb:a605:4636:ce20] has joined #joinmarket     
14:18 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:fcb4:b0c5:ca61:cf84] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
14:51 -!- cbits_ [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:38cb:a605:4636:ce20] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
15:21 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e8e0:aec9:59c0:70fe] has joined #joinmarket     
16:04 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e8e0:aec9:59c0:70fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
16:44 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e14c:a29:7812:1b7d] has joined #joinmarket     
17:05 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-146-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]     
17:21 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-75-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket     
18:19 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:e14c:a29:7812:1b7d] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]     
18:24 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-75-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]     
19:11 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds]     
19:14 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #joinmarket     
20:49 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:f409:a2ac:85e1:3051] has joined #joinmarket     
21:01 -!- cbits [~cbits@2607:f380:a61:650:f409:a2ac:85e1:3051] has quit [Quit: Leaving]     
21:49 -!- cluelessperson [~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]     
21:56 -!- cluelessperson [~cluelessp@unaffiliated/cluelessperson] has joined #joinmarket     
22:08 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-114-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]     
22:18 -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-117-236.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #joinmarket     
23:15 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket