--- Day changed Thu Mar 09 2017
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03:39 < waxwing> just a quick update: https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/5yekko/added_windows_and_tailsdebian32_binaries_for_new/
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08:56 < Numin0us> whats the difference between external and internal addresses?
08:57 < waxwing> Numin0us: external are addresses you can safely send *to* without it conflicting with the jm wallet's actions
08:57 < waxwing> so to keep it simple we just tell everyone to send to external when you deposit
08:57 < waxwing> apart from that not much difference, when spending, the wallet will take from both.
08:57 < Numin0us> okay so when I'm funding a wallet its best to send to an external address? if I want to send BTC from one mix depth to another should I also do the same thing
08:58 < waxwing> first point yes, second point, you're not given the option - the wallet chooses which coins in the mixdepth to spend.
08:59 < waxwing> re your earlier question, if you want to spend coins out, it might be simpler to simply make one sweep payment from each mixdepth to a receiving address in another wallet
09:00 < waxwing> also note you have the -N 0 option if you don't need or want to do these payments with a coinjoin
09:01 < waxwing> that's entirely up to you, but the best way to keep privacy is to try to avoid combining coins from different mixdepths (especially, combining coins from *all* mixdepths is bad)
09:03 < Numin0us> a sweep payment means it will empty out all the coins in that mixdepth right? what if I want to just spend a portion of it
09:03 < Numin0us> also I'm trying to spend some of my BTC now and getting this error "ValueError: Estimated fee per kB greater than absurd value: 150000, quitting."
09:03 < waxwing> sure, you can do that instead, just specify an amount
09:04 < waxwing> yeah you'll have to reset absurd_fee_per_kb in the config file
09:04 < Numin0us> how do I go about doing that?
09:04 < waxwing> also note the tx_fees value specifies how many blocks confirmation you target
09:04 < waxwing> edit joinmarket.cfg in same directory
09:05 < Numin0us> what should I set it to?
09:05 < waxwing> up to you, but it's meant to be a sanity check in case your fee estimation source goes wildly wrong; in today's environment, maybe 500000?
09:05 < waxwing> i usually look at this https://bitcoinfees.github.io/#3h ; there are several similar
09:06 < waxwing> you can also use the rpc estimatefee (or estimatesmartfee) if Core
09:06 < Numin0us> also, in the send payment page on the wiki, it says that a sweep payment will empty a mixdepth, and thats done by setting the amount sent to 0
09:06 < waxwing> correct
09:06 < Numin0us> you said above that I could set the amount sent by a sweep payment though
09:07 < Numin0us> or maybe I just misread it
09:07 < waxwing> i don't think i did? it's not possible to set the amount
09:07 < waxwing> because you don't know the fees in advance. well complicated topic, but basically.
09:07 < Numin0us> I feel so clueless T_T
09:07 < waxwing> you shouldn't, it's complicated :)
09:08 < Numin0us> so what exactly is the importance of the tx_fees?
09:08 < waxwing> if you want to send a specific amount, set that as the amount. if you want to empty the mixdepth, set it to '0' and it will do a sweep; the amount will be ~ the amount of coins in the mixdepth, minus fees
09:09 < waxwing> example: tx_fees =3 means set the fee to target confirmation in the next 3 blocks
09:09 < waxwing> i'd dis-advise setting it to 1 (or perhaps even 2) if you're using Core, it seems to overestimate, although that may have changed in the latest Core updates.
09:10 < waxwing> i often use 6-10 if the payment is not time-sensitive, seems to be fine. i'd set 3 if it's fairly time-sensitive. this works better if using Core (as do a lot of other things)
09:11 < Numin0us> okay, so I just tried sending some BTC and I got a bunch of text and then a list of "orders" and its asking for confirmation to send with the orders, what exactly is going on here?
09:11 < Numin0us> are these the coinjoins?
09:11 < waxwing> it's checking if you're OK with the fees, basically
09:12 < waxwing> it will only start doing the coinjoin if you agree
09:12 < waxwing> well, it will start building the transaction with the counterparties, and after a little time it'll print out the txid and quit.
09:14 < Numin0us> okay cool, so I got the txid but can't find it in blockchain.info, does it take a while to propagate?
09:14 < waxwing> give it a minute or two, in my experience bc.i is not so fast
09:14 < waxwing> you can always try different block explorers too
09:15 < Numin0us> okay cool
09:21 < Numin0us> so in the txid it seems there's a lot more BTC going in and out then what I put in
09:21 < waxwing> Numin0us: coinjoin? :)
09:22 < waxwing> did you do `python sendpayment.py walletfilename amount address` ?
09:22 < Numin0us> yeah
09:22 < Numin0us> along with a specified mixing depth
09:22 < waxwing> ok, so that means you left -N as the default, which is between 5 and 7 iirc
09:22 < waxwing> so you've probably got around 6 equal sized outputs
09:23 < waxwing> note how this kind of transaction is quite expensive in fees, because it consumes a lot of inputs
09:23 < Numin0us> looking at wallet-tool it appears to be about the right amount taken
09:23 < Numin0us> ahh yeah I didn't really check too closely :P
09:25 < waxwing> it will be exactly the right amount taken, if you include (1) btc transaction fees and (2) coinjoin fees to your counterparties. (2) will usually be extremely small.
09:25 < Numin0us> so coinjoins increase privacy
09:25 < Numin0us> ?     
09:25 < waxwing> and again, you have a straight no-coinjoin option -N 0, which will be a much smaller tx and so a much smaller fee, but of course without the fungibility boost.
09:26 < waxwing> Numin0us: yes. did you say earlier you'd already run a yieldgen? or did i get that mixed up.
09:26 < Numin0us> yeah I did just for the hell of it with some BTC that I didn't care much about :P, it was running on an old box
09:27 < Numin0us> since the value of BTC has gone up a bit since I left it I wanted to dig into the treasure chest
09:27 < waxwing> yes, coinjoins are intended to improve fungibility. there's a brief explanation in the joinmarket wiki home page.
09:27 < waxwing> and i think a link to the original explanation by gmaxwell (who knocks about here sometimes)
09:29 < Numin0us> which page is that?
09:29 < waxwing> i'm glad to see people who don't have the faintest idea what it is are helping bitcoin's fungibility with it :)
09:30 < Numin0us> lol     
09:30 < waxwing> wiki https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/wiki
09:30 < waxwing> original description https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0
09:31 < waxwing> for clarity, JM is just one way of doing it; there (have been/will be/are) others
09:32 < Numin0us> I sort of get it but I mostly don't :P
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10:10 < waxwing> 55 in cgan pit ... seems pretty clear a problem with servers, most likely onions
10:16 < grubles> i dunno. i'm not entirely convinced it's only the onions. my vpn's ip seemed to be severely rate-limited or outright banned.
10:16 < grubles> ..from cgan
10:17 < waxwing> redacor came in here the other day and said they were moving servers, however his tone suggested it should be ok after a brief time
10:17 < waxwing> i'd guess they're having some problems
10:17 < grubles> ahhh
10:21 < grubles> hmmm i think the ASN of this vps provider is actually banned from a lot of things
10:22 < grubles> sites i've never visited before are banned or displaying weird "We're sorry for any inconvenience, but the site is currently unavailable." messages
10:22 < grubles> sigh
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12:56 < Numin0us> @waxwing thanks for the link to the forum post it really cleared up a lot for me
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