--- Day changed Thu Jul 20 2017
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03:04 < CtrlC> Do I need to create a new wallet to run the tubmler bot?
03:05 < waxwing> CtrlC: well, you need to have a funded joinmarket wallet; the funds don't all have to be in mixdepth 0, although that's probably optimal
03:06 < CtrlC> waxwing, so I have to create a wallet, send my coins there and then run the tool?
03:07 < waxwing> CtrlC: yes, see the wiki pages on 'funding your wallet' and the one on running the tumbler (i guess you can start from the latter)
03:07 < CtrlC> waxwing, I'm using the later but it didn't say anything about creating a wallet.
03:08 < waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/wiki/Step-by-step-running-the-tumbler#quick-simple-tumbling
03:08 < waxwing> see "first create a wallet" and the link right
03:09 < CtrlC> oh. right. Thanks.
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03:20 < CtrlC> it does use tor by default. Right?
03:21 < waxwing> it uses tor for connecting to irc if you configure it to use socks5 proxy in the joinmarket.cfg and connect to the IRC onion addresses
03:22 < CtrlC> waxwing, what about for transitions?
03:23 < waxwing> you mean tx broadcast? that'd be up to your bitcoin Core setup.
03:23 < waxwing> i don't recommend trying to use joinmarket without bitcoin core at the moment.
03:23 < CtrlC> waxwing, I don't have any bitcoin core.  I got electrum.
03:24 < CtrlC> why?
03:24 < waxwing> ok, i think you'll find it rather flaky. certainly it will be slow.
03:24 < CtrlC> Like how slow?
03:24 < waxwing> not enough testing of the electrum server connection option. also i think it needs some improvement to work faster.
03:25 < waxwing> well i put it in as a fallback (we had a PR like about a year or more ago, which i touched up and tested a little before merging)
03:25 < waxwing> it's not smart about how it sources data from the electrum servers, basically
03:25 < CtrlC> :/     
03:25 < CtrlC> I'm a bitcoin noob. I don't really get what you mean.
03:27 < waxwing> well, it might be smart to install Bitcoin Core, if you want to use joinmarket. joinmarket is not easy to use. plus what with the current potential instability of the network due to segwit activation activities, that's another reason to hold back.
03:28 < CtrlC> waxwing, I don't have enough resources to do that.
03:28 < waxwing> i've been thinking a little about it, i don't see risk for individual transactions, but we may enter a period where you need to wait for a lot more confirmations to be really safe. since joinmarket uses coinjoin which is a single-transaction protocol, there's not really funds loss risk, but transactions could potentially fail in various ways. but, we'll see.
03:29 < waxwing> CtrlC: there is a pruned node option in Bitcoin. you can ask about it in #bitcoin
03:30 < CtrlC> waxwing, I know about it but it still needs a lot of time and bandwidth.
03:30 < waxwing> yes, it does, for the initial sync.
03:30 < CtrlC> yup. So how can I run in using electrum?
03:31 < waxwing> it's a one-time hit, but sure. joinmarket needs a very reliable interface to the blockchain. we used to have beginners use blockr.io but it has become ridiculously unreliable.
03:31 < CtrlC> :/     
03:31 < waxwing> well there is an electrum plugin that i put together, but it's not *quite* as easy to setup as i wanted, plus it's limited to single join transactions, and i was waiting earlier this year for more testing but it didn't happen and i'm busy with other stuff now (segwit integration for a start)
03:32 < CtrlC> I think I read that single transactions are not a good idea.
03:32 < waxwing> unfortunately there isn't anyone else really doing any joinmarket dev stuff at the moment, some people are busy with other things.
03:33 < waxwing> well they don't do much for privacy, in themselves. but a sequence of transactions is, after all, made up of single transactions :)
03:33 < CtrlC> So it seems like my best option of even my only option is to install bitcoin core?:/
03:33 < CtrlC> or*     
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03:34 < waxwing> if you wanted to just try it out, you could use the electrum server option, but you might find you have to start the script more than once before it works.
03:34 < waxwing> that would be trying out a single transaction. i wouldn't try that with the tumbler, i very much doubt it'll work.
03:34 < waxwing> (sendpayment)
03:35 < CtrlC> It all seems complicated to me. Isn't there any simpler option?
03:36 < CtrlC> Like a website doing it or something?
03:38 < CtrlC> waxwing, so blockchain_source = electrum is it?
03:39 < waxwing> either that or electrum-server i forget. if that's what it says in the comments, it should be that.
03:40 < CtrlC> waxwing, ok. so I set that to electrum, and then I have to run the script a few times? How many?
03:40 < CtrlC> How can I know if it's doing the right job?
03:40 < waxwing> it tries to connect to one of a set of servers randomly; if it fails it'll just quit, so you can just try again.
03:41 < waxwing> it is strictly a weaker privacy model than using Core, because you're passing sets of addresses you want to check to that server.
03:42 < CtrlC> so the server might be able to track me using it's logs?
03:42 < waxwing> yes this is always true when using electrum (modulo some details)
03:43 < CtrlC> waxwing, sorry I'm asking a lot. so the steps are as follows: 1: fund the wallet 2: change the server to electrum 3: run the script using the following command: python tumbler.py wallet.json "first address" "second address" "third address"
03:45 < waxwing> as i said, i wouldn't try it with the tumbler, it's bound to fail at some point. better use it to try a single transaction (sendpayment) and see if you can get that working.
03:46 < CtrlC> oh dear. idk what that really is. 
03:46 < CtrlC> Maybe I can have some privacy by manually sending coins to different addresses using electrum?
03:46 < waxwing> anyone else please feel free to chime in :)
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06:07 < waxwing> so i now have yieldgenerators, and sendpayment, tumbler, with segwit, working on joinmarket-clientserver. i set it up to use bip39, bip44 wallets (but just switched to bip49 which just changes 44' to 49' for the branches).
06:07 < waxwing> tons of work still to do of course.
06:08 < waxwing> one vague thought occurred to me while running tumbler; non-p2sh destinations are not workable, of course. damned sticky consensus :)
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08:38 < pigeons> what are the trade-offs to using a joinmarket wallet vs. a bitcoin-core wallet which i see is now supported via rpc
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