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06:04 < belcher> wait a minute, i should sell the bcash in the joinmarket donation address
06:04 < belcher> thats an extra 10% in donations.. slightly lower than 10% now
06:10 < waxwing> belcher: i won't be upset if you don't, nor if you do. it's a bit of a pain either way. if you want to do it without trusting weird software, i can help out, but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone as it's just a hack and i haven't bothered to clean it up.
06:11 < belcher> oh yeah true since the donation address is reused, so if electron cash sends the private key to jihan then its a serious problem
06:11 < belcher> avoiding address reuse mostly solves that
06:11 < waxwing> yeah each case is slightly different, this is a pretty tricky situation
06:12 < waxwing> i'm pretty sure the electron cash diff is fine; but that doesn't mean i know for sure it works, e.g. if you import private keys (i believe it does, but "believe" is not know)
06:12 < waxwing> but yeah even a VM doesn't help if you start moving private keys around
06:12 < belcher> iv already used it for my other coins, but they dont have reused addresses
06:12 < waxwing> right
06:13 < belcher> did you say you have another method of signing transactions for bcash?
06:13 < belcher> maybe its not worth the bother
06:13 < waxwing> yeah as above ^ extremely hacky way
06:13 < waxwing> i would say, probably not.
06:14 < waxwing> it's basically (1) use existing jmcs bip143 code, build raw tx, then use joinmarket main repo and electruminterface to BCH electrum server to broadcast
06:14 < waxwing> the latter part is fairly trivial of course, but i could find any pushtx apis on the web
06:15 < belcher> or electron cash's broadcasting interface (which is the same as electruminterface ultimately)
06:15 < belcher> signing of the tx is the only part different to bitcoin iirc, finding the right UTXOs to spend and everything else is the same
06:15 < waxwing> right, good point. i needn't really have bothered with that.
06:15 < waxwing> yeah it's the same but of course only sufficiently old utxos and whatnot.
06:16 < belcher> ill ask around a bit
06:16 < waxwing> i guess i may as well pastebin the steps then, just in case you or anyone wants to try it; note i didn't wrap it up in a full script, which is why i'm a bit reluctant to publicise it
06:17 < waxwing> that and the fact that you could easily lose coins if you screw it up of course...
06:19 < belcher> yeah
06:23 < belcher> its worth a try, electron cash can also display your txhex and even if theres something wrong its unlikely you'd lose the coins, more likely the tx is simply invalid
06:24 < waxwing> i'm just sanitising the description, be a few minutes
06:25 < waxwing> but if you want to do with multiple utxo inputs you have to have a clue, luckily you do :)
06:25 < belcher> no rush :)
06:25 < gmaxwell> holy shit is selling bch a pita.
06:26 < waxwing> lol     
06:26 < waxwing> waitingforbchblock.skeleton.jpg
06:26 < gmaxwell> just everything is a pain.
06:26 < gmaxwell> their software is mystery meat that is impossible to audit, it fails its own tests... which thwarted my efforts to just rewrite it to verify it.
06:27 < gmaxwell> the network is unreliable, the services are all busted.
06:27 < gmaxwell> people left and right losing moeny because of screwups that it facilitiates ... by using the same addresses or by signing bitcoin compatible signatures instead of bcash compatible ones.
06:28 < gmaxwell> exchanges looking for 20 confirmations, which arrive about the 12th of never.
06:34 < Anduck> hitbtc, 2 confs
06:34 < Anduck> market sold a bunch of bitchcoin there
06:38 < gmaxwell> Anduck: did you notice that "Bitcoin Cash" anagrams to Casino Bitch?
06:42 < gmaxwell> Anduck: man, google adds a wikipeida infobox for hitbtc which is ultra comforting.
06:42 < gmaxwell> "HitBTC claims to be a Europe-based cryptocurrency exchange. However their website appears to deliberately make it impossible for customers to know the jurisdiction of the legal entity behind HitBTC "
06:48 < waxwing> i sent belcher the link if anyone else wants it, ask
07:03  * waxwing sold some small chunks on hitbtc too but yeah it is a bit dodgy :)
07:03 < waxwing> heck all these places are, let's be honest
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07:16 < Anduck> gmaxwell: perfect!
07:17 < Anduck> but, just sell very slow amounts at time. should be reasonably safe 
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10:33 < exile> Hello
10:34 < exile> i'm sorry it's been long time not using this. I'm wondering, are there enough people to mix coin rapidly ?
10:34 < exile> and also, how can I move my coins from a deep level to the normal level of my wallet, please ?
10:58 < exile> It's not clear for me if I should send a payment to an external address of Joinmarket or internal ?
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11:28 < exile> really, no one ?
11:48 < waxwing> exile: payment to external
11:49 < waxwing> exile: move from deep to normal: if you want to do that you can use either sendpayment with -N 0 (called 'direct send', no coinjoin, no IRC, just ordinary bitcoin tx), or sendpayment with some positive value for -N to do a coinjoin.
11:49 < waxwing> to send all coins in one mixdepth use amount 0 (this is called a sweep, sends all coins in that mixdepth to the destination)
11:49 < waxwing> see the wiki for more details
11:52 < exile> yeah i'm reading the wiki
11:52 < exile> i read it a lot
11:54 < exile> can you please just tell me : the destination must be an internal adresse of level 0, right ?
11:54 < waxwing> exile: i said, payment to external
11:55 < exile> sorry, didn't see those lines !
11:55 < waxwing> you can pay into an "external" address in any mixdepth
11:56 < exile> thank you
11:58 < waxwing> exile: yw, np
11:58 < exile> also
11:58 < exile> I remember a webpage, where I could see a list of takers, and the amount of coins available for mixing operations
11:58 < exile> can't manage to find that page again
11:58 < exile> it was long ago
11:58 < waxwing> https://joinmarket.me/ob/
11:58 < exile> seems so simple ^^
11:59 < exile> thanks :)
11:59 < waxwing> not sure if that '26' is real though, i think it's a bit buggy
11:59 < waxwing> obviously number is low at the moment, but i don't think that low
11:59 < waxwing> looks like about 50 in pit
11:59 < waxwing> i think there's some bug where over a long period it doesn't pick up new entrants or something
12:00 < waxwing> let me restart it just to see
12:01 < waxwing> yeah now shows 51
12:01 < waxwing> if anyone runs ob-watcher or has time to look please investigate whether there's a reason it starts showing lower numbers after a longish period
12:24 < exile> nice
12:29 < exile> the fact that addresses start with "xpub6" that's normal ?
12:29 < exile> I mean I paste this too for the dest. address ?
12:30 < exile> those external adresses seem rather long to me ^^
12:30 < waxwing> exile: those are "extended pubkeys" not bitcoin addresses
12:30 < waxwing> if you look further down you'll see the actual addresses
12:31 < waxwing> you can derive the individual addresses from the xpub keys
12:31 < exile> I always thought those address below where "internal"
12:31 < exile> so if I send to the address corresponding to my "m/0/0/0/000" it's okay ?
12:32 < waxwing> it goes (xpub) then (external addresses) ( you should usually see 6+) then (internal addresses) (you may see zero or more, depending on what coins you have)
12:32 < exile> sorry for the newbish questions
12:32 < waxwing> exile: yes that would be the normal place to make a first deposit
12:32 < exile> ok, thank you very much
12:34 < exile> okay, I hope I didn't lost all my money ^^
12:34 < exile> loose*
12:35 < waxwing> i was under the impression you'd used it before because you were asking about how to move coins from a high mixdepth back to a low, but it seems not.
12:35 < waxwing> so do you have a Bitcoin Core node?
12:36 < exile> yeah, was a long time ago
12:36 < exile> but yeah, i was half joking, i'm pretty confident
12:36 < waxwing> if you plan to use joinmarket, configure it to use Bitcoin Core. The other blockchain options are not at all reliable (also bad for privacy).
12:37 < exile> yeah
12:38 < exile> don't you find it weird that I manage to obtain any result at all,
12:38 < exile> when trying to get maximum privacy
12:38 < exile> only when activating the option
12:38 < exile> AllowOutboundLocalhost 2
12:38 < exile> in torsocks.conf
12:38 < waxwing> this is on tails right
12:38 < exile> nope
12:38 < waxwing> yeah i know about that it's a real pain actually
12:38 < exile> not using tails
12:38 < waxwing> oh just Tor
12:39 < exile> tails seems so not up to date to me
12:39 < exile> maybe i'm wrong
12:39 < waxwing> they're releasing new versions all the time
12:39 < exile> okay
12:39 < waxwing> 3.0 ++ now
12:39 < exile> but the config file for tor in the last version was like, old
12:39 < exile> the tor version too
12:40 < exile> was way beyond
12:40 < waxwing> oh you mean that, OK
12:40 < exile> when i downloaded Tails some months ago
12:41 < exile> so, do you easily manage to get "Inbound" bitcoin connexions via tor, and is it important ?
12:41 < waxwing> i'm not using Tor for my bitcoin node. or hang on maybe I am, since Tor is running here.
12:41 < waxwing> or .. nope that's the other machine :)
12:41 < exile> ^^      
12:42 < exile> tor has now auto creation of temporary onion services
12:42 < waxwing> reasonably sure some other people here have that switched on
12:42 < exile> feature that Tail's version lacked last time I checked
12:44 < exile> my coins still show at same mixdepth than before
12:44 < exile> should I just wait ?
12:45 < waxwing> sorry i'm lost .. oh you mean, you were sending *from* another mixdepth to mixdepth 0?
12:45 < exile> I used  : 
12:45 < exile> python ./sendpayment.py -N 0 -m 2 wallet.json 0 [dest adress from 0 depth of my wallet]
12:45 < exile> yep     
12:45 < exile> tried to clear depth 2
12:46 < waxwing> yes but ... python ./sendpayment.py ?
12:46 < waxwing> not python sendpayment.py ?
12:46 < exile> isn't it like, exactly the same ? ^^
12:46 < exile> the program worked
12:46 < waxwing> did it show you a txid at the end? did it prompt you y/n to send the tx?
12:46 < waxwing> ah ok
12:46 < exile> yep     
12:46 < exile> i "pushed to network"
12:46 < waxwing> well, do you see it on a block explorer? most likely it's fine
12:47 < waxwing> if you do python wallet-tool.py wallet.json it should show, even though unconfirmed
12:47 < exile> I'll check
12:47 < exile> nah, it shows juste like before, in depth 2 balance
12:47 < waxwing> yeah it's exactly the same, good point :)
12:48 < exile> i was expecting to see total balance : 0 
12:48 < exile> for a while
12:48 < exile> and then coins back on depth 0
12:48 < waxwing> no we set the wallet-tool to display unconfirmed
12:48 < waxwing> because people panicked when they saw coins disappearing :)
12:48 < waxwing> i should say, by *default*. you can change it. (see listunspent_args in config)
12:49 < exile> thanks
12:51 < exile> ok, the transaction shows on the blockchain
12:51 < exile> so, it seem it's a matter of time
12:52 < waxwing> exile: but you don't see it in the mixdepth 0 address?
12:52 < exile> not with wallet-tool no
12:52 < exile> i still see them in depth 2
12:52 < waxwing> hmm i may have remembered this detail wrong, let me check
12:52 < exile> the address for sending I used is from level 0
12:53 < exile> it's only two confirmations for now
12:53 < waxwing> exile: did you set listunspent_args in joinmarket.cfg?
12:53 < waxwing> what's only 2 confirmations?
12:54 < exile> the transaction
12:54 < exile> say I manage to connect with tor, and with bitcoin-rpc as source, all well configured
12:54 < waxwing> if it has 2 confirmations, it should definitely show in the mixdepth 0 address (the receiving address)
12:54 < exile> what would be the simple command to send a payment to an address, and get everything well mixed in the process ? :)
12:54 < waxwing> oh hang on, what do you see in joinmarket.cfg [BLOCKCHAIN], field "blockchain_source"?
12:55 < waxwing> if it's blockr, that explains it. as i said it's not reliable, like, at all.
12:55 < exile> for now it's blockr
12:55 < exile> i put back an original cfg
12:55 < waxwing> yeah that's why. it's presumably lagging. i saw this with someone else last week.
12:55 < exile> ok, so it's a matter of time only ?
12:56 < waxwing> exile: "well mixed" is not a clear concept. use sendpayment.py for single coinjoins, use tumbler.py for a series of coinjoins for much more effective obfuscation.
12:56 < exile> thank you
12:56 < exile> I was about to tell you to ignore this question, it's on the wiki
12:56 < exile> but last time
12:56 < exile> i thought I had all configured well
12:57 < exile> I threw a command
12:57 < waxwing> but the latter is (a) expensive in bitcoin fees (b) takes a long time and (c) hard to complete without errors. i recommend using https://github.com/AdamISZ/joinmarket-clientserver latest releases as i put a lot of extra stuff in to make it more robust.
12:57 < exile> and it seemed to do some stuff
12:57 < exile> i let it work for a loooong time
12:57 < exile> like hours
12:57 < exile> and then couldn't wait, stopped it
12:57 < exile> and nothing had moved ^^ 
12:57 < exile> ok thanks o
12:57 < exile> for the new version !
12:57 < exile> I will have a look
12:59 < exile> for the second question, the fact that I use blockr, it's just a matter of time for everything to appear in place yes ?
12:59 < waxwing> latest release note, not master. master is being changed for segwit, you can't use it now (except for testing)
12:59 < exile> just saw that ;)
13:00 < waxwing> exile: that's up to blockr i guess, i don't know. just don't use it.
13:00 < exile> oh, okay ^^
13:00 < exile> but, i mean, the transaction is gone and received by the address corresponding to depth 0
13:01 < exile> nevermind, i will switch to something else thant blockr ;)
13:02 < exile> just a memory that came back to me now :
13:02 < exile> one time I had a problem, nothing working
13:02 < exile> it was because I used a '#' character in the RPC password
13:05 < exile> thank you very much for all your answers
13:05 < exile> and for developping this pretty software 
13:05 < exile> i shall use it in the future :)
13:06 < exile> now it's time for me to rest my brain on a video game
13:06 < exile> good bye :)
13:06 < waxwing> exile: :) cya
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13:06 < waxwing> pretty? heh
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