--- Day changed Thu Aug 10 2017 00:07 -!- Crushed-Box [~Crushed-B@host31-48-213-45.range31-48.btcentralplus.com] has joined #joinmarket 00:45 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 03:40 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 04:59 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17 -!- Crushed-Box [~Crushed-B@host31-48-213-45.range31-48.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Crushed-Box] 05:44 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 06:08 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:10 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 06:44 -!- Crushed-Box [~Crushed-B@host31-48-213-45.range31-48.btcentralplus.com] has joined #joinmarket 07:08 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 07:13 -!- raedah [~x@71.19.252.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53 < belcher> okay i read that paper, its essentially the same as earlier but with a bigger data set (they continued collecting essentially) 08:00 -!- puddinpop [~puddinpop@unaffiliated/puddinpop] has joined #joinmarket 08:45 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04 -!- zxccxz [6dc7e35d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.199.227.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:12 -!- Crushed-Box [~Crushed-B@host31-48-213-45.range31-48.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Crushed-Box] 11:13 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 11:13 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:14 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 11:14 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:16 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 11:17 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:17 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 11:45 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ pushed 2 new commits to develop: https://git.io/v7D7s 11:45 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop 4efc578 mb300sd: Add executable bit and hashbangs for easier usage 11:45 < GithubBot5678> joinmarket/develop e58f67b Adam Gibson: Merge #748: Add executable bit and hashbangs for easier usage... 11:45 < GithubBot5678> [joinmarket] AdamISZ closed pull request #748: Add executable bit and hashbangs for easier usage (develop...+x) https://git.io/v7PRH 12:31 < belcher> could this concept be extended to have bitcoins temporarily locked up in a CLTV address https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fidelity_bonds 12:32 < belcher> in the coinswap scheme we came up with i wrote about using CLTV addresses for anti-dos, now reading about nopara's zerolink which might find that idea useful too 12:32 < belcher> ill post it on his github 12:33 < waxwing> belcher: how does this cross over with pay to contract hash? 12:34 < waxwing> i'm just thinking vaguely in terms of "prove commitment of funds". 12:34 < belcher> whats pay to contract hash? google doesnt quickly show 12:34 < waxwing> you remember when we were addressing 156, there were like 3 suggestions 12:34 < waxwing> let me find the gist where we discussed it 12:35 < waxwing> the last of the 3 here https://gist.github.com/AdamISZ/9cbba5e9408d23813ca8 12:35 < waxwing> CLTV would be different of course, being an actual lock 12:37 < belcher> ah interesting, so thats a bit more interactive 12:45 < belcher> interestingly the bip65 OP_CLTV suggests "Proving sacrifice to miners' fees" as a similar possible application, so instead of just locking up coins temporarily you lock them up and in the future they go to the miners 12:46 < waxwing> yeah. that's one thing i greatly appreciated about that BIP, giving example use cases. 12:50 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55 < belcher> the fidelity bond wiki page writes this "The core of the fidelity bond is the sacrifice - the mechanism by which Bitcoins are provably taken from their original owner. The Bitcoins may be given to someone else or destroyed, but regardless it must not be possible for their original owner to regain control of them. " so its sounding like "temporary fidelity bonds" using CLTV aren't really in the spirit of the idea 12:56 < belcher> the requirement to lock up coins could be useful for anti-DOS, i guess it means someone who holds a lot of bitcoins can DOS for free because they were intending to hold those coins for a long time anyway 12:56 -!- Pasha [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #joinmarket 12:57 < waxwing> right, it's a different idea. i vaguely remember reading that in the past and thinking "most of the time that's not something you want to do". 12:57 < waxwing> right, so i think i see value in both: fees *and* lock up for anti-DOS, in different aspects. 12:58 < waxwing> but i agree this is an interesting area to think about. 12:58 < belcher> what could be a name for the temporary lock-up for anti-dos 12:59 < belcher> "temporary fidelity bond" could work, especially when you look up what "fidelity bond" means in normal finance 13:00 < waxwing> yes .. somehow "fidelity bond" for non-recoverable funds sounds wrong to me. but i haven't looked up the financial definition. 13:00 -!- Pasha is now known as Cory 13:00 < waxwing> usually "bond" in the more general, non-financial sense, just means more like locking up than throwing away. 13:00 < belcher> in normal finance you can get the fidelity bond money back 13:00 < waxwing> right that was my intuition 13:00 < waxwing> which is probably why as i said above, when i read that page, it seemed weird to me. 13:01 < belcher> example use, a contractor is paid to dig a tunnel under a town, there is a risk they'll screw it up and make building collapse in the town, they pay a fidelity bond that covers the cost of this, if they build the tunnel without screwing it up they get that money back 13:01 < waxwing> right so the conditionality. that's what's hard to get in a btc context. 13:01 < waxwing> multisig and a trusted party fits better. 13:02 < belcher> yep 13:02 < waxwing> then the term 'escrow' comes into play 13:02 < belcher> okay so ill add "temporarily fidelity bond" to the bitcoin wiki page, at least the idea is recorded somewhere 13:04 < belcher> in "temporary fidelity bond" the thing being scarified is time rather than money (although money has time value.. so) 13:04 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06 < waxwing> yes, in a bitcoin context. in a legacy finance context you presumably give up some counterparty risk also (e.g. bank holds it for you)? 13:10 < belcher> yep 13:10 < belcher> or landlord, depending on the local laws 13:11 < belcher> a landlord's deposit is essentially this 14:22 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:22 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:24 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:24 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:25 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:25 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:26 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:26 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:27 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:27 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:27 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:27 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:28 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:28 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:29 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:29 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:33 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:33 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:34 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:34 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:35 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:35 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:35 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:36 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:37 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:37 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:38 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:39 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:39 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:40 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:40 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:41 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:42 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:43 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:43 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:45 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:45 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:45 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:46 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:49 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 14:49 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:50 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 15:07 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:44 -!- simpledat [~user@unaffiliated/simpledat] has joined #joinmarket 15:44 < simpledat> Is there any reliable bitcoin mixer? Since now Bitmixer.IO has stopped 15:44 < simpledat> My friend bought bitcoins from a guy. And does not want him to trace these 15:45 -!- puddinpop [~puddinpop@unaffiliated/puddinpop] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53 < nkuttler> maybe.. do a coinjoin? 15:56 < belcher> see the topic for links to the software simpledat 16:27 -!- simpledat [~user@unaffiliated/simpledat] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:10 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 18:34 -!- jack [c0e4d310@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.228.211.16] has joined #joinmarket 18:46 -!- jack [c0e4d310@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.228.211.16] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:07 -!- puddinpop [~puddinpop@unaffiliated/puddinpop] has joined #joinmarket 19:17 -!- deafboy_ [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has joined #joinmarket 19:18 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:18 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:18 -!- Rix [~rix@unaffiliated/rix] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has joined #joinmarket 19:19 -!- Rix [~rix@bnc.vps.bg] has joined #joinmarket 19:19 -!- Rix is now known as Guest298 19:24 -!- Anduck_ [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has joined #joinmarket 19:28 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 21:40 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Client Quit] 21:41 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 22:09 -!- viasil [~viasil@198.12.75.25] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12 -!- viasil_ [~viasil@198.12.75.25] has joined #joinmarket 22:15 -!- CtrlC [~CtrlC@5.196.252.236] has joined #joinmarket 22:15 -!- CtrlC [~CtrlC@5.196.252.236] has quit [Changing host] 22:15 -!- CtrlC [~CtrlC@unaffiliated/ctrlc] has joined #joinmarket 23:02 -!- zxccxz [5db797e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.183.151.232] has joined #joinmarket 23:08 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has joined #joinmarket