--- Day changed Thu Aug 31 2017 00:07 < waxwing> adlai, for myself i'm very happy for it to take a long while for people to shift over, for several reasons, mostly because different codebase, more chance to make fixes to bugs, more time to add in needed features (like i just spent a bit of time re-adding the ob-watcher). 00:08 < waxwing> and because people have to explicitly choose to *send* their coins to the new wallet type, there's a natural friction to it anyway. 00:09 < waxwing> so it's like, it'll take a bit of time, and it's quite fine that it will. and the non-sw market will naturally stay there for quite a while whatever happens, people are still going to use 1 addresses for a while for various things. 00:09 < waxwing> from now on i am going to get increasingly grumpy with merchants who request payment to 1 addresses. 00:16 < waxwing> i think my bot has done like 8 txs now (specifically excluding the test ones i did with myself). 00:17 < waxwing> btw an example of 'fixes' as mentioned above is alexcato's PR to allow tx_fees to be set to a sats per kb value (N>144) as was done in the main repo. we should try to spread the word about that as much as possible considering situations like yesterday. 00:18 < waxwing> when you could get conf. in like 1-2 blocks with 30 sat/byte but estimator was giving > 300 for basically any N value (for me anyway) 00:59 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has joined #joinmarket 01:05 -!- Just_ [5daa6f55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.170.111.85] has joined #joinmarket 01:05 -!- Just_ [5daa6f55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.170.111.85] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23 < waxwing> please correct if there's an error: https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/6x5m41/advice_on_fees/ 01:41 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 02:12 -!- hardtryer [~swich@93.170.111.85] has joined #joinmarket 02:12 < hardtryer> hi all 02:12 < hardtryer> is there somebody? 02:12 < hardtryer> have some trouble with coinjoins 02:13 < hardtryer> I want just to test few time with testnet 02:14 < hardtryer> All last times it says 'not enough liqudity' 02:16 < hardtryer> I use ''chat.freenode.net', channel 'joinmarket-pit', joimarket plugin for Electrum, and choice different amount of mBTC, from 5 to 500, and all rejected. What I make wrong? 03:16 < MaxSan> oO 03:17 < MaxSan> i aint tested elctrum plugin 03:38 < hardtryer> just use standalone Qt version? 03:53 -!- hardtryer [~swich@93.170.111.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:03 < waxwing> damn! he's gone 05:03 < waxwing> why do they always just leave immediately? 05:04 < waxwing> the electrum plugin is not updated. i need to add a note to that repo. it might work with non-segwit bots in the main pit, but the testnet bots are running the new segwit version. 05:05 < waxwing> hmm no i'd need to figure stuff out about the dependency. better to just say no the electrum plugin doesn't work at the moment, full stop. 05:11 < xcvvcx> he hardtryed for almost 2 hours :P 05:13 < waxwing> xcvvcx, well i guess he tried a lot harder than most people, to be fair :) 06:05 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #joinmarket 06:08 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:10 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #joinmarket 06:10 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:04 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has joined #joinmarket 07:08 -!- d3spwn [53a19dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.161.157.200] has joined #joinmarket 07:40 -!- sturles [~sturles@unaffiliated/sturles] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02 -!- xcvvcx_ [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has joined #joinmarket 08:04 -!- xcvvcx [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:04 -!- sturles [~sturles@unaffiliated/sturles] has joined #joinmarket 08:16 -!- hardtryer [~swich@93.170.111.85] has joined #joinmarket 08:39 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:51 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 08:58 < hardtryer> is someone here? 09:01 < Anduck> ye.. 09:02 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.35] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:17 -!- belcher_ [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:28 < instagibbs> no 09:51 < zxccxz> [15:04] the electrum plugin is not updated. i need to add a note to that repo. it might work with non-segwit bots in the main pit, but the testnet bots are running the new segwit version. [15:05] hmm no i'd need to figure stuff out about the dependency. better to just say no the electrum plugin doesn't work at the moment, full stop. 09:57 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05 < waxwing> hardtryer, go ahead 10:05 < waxwing> hardtryer, i can answer the questions you asked earlier if you like 10:05 < waxwing> (sorry my connection is all over the place) 10:08 < waxwing> is there anybody out there/can anybody hear me? 10:08 < arubi> yep 10:08 < waxwing> arubi, tks 10:10 < arubi> btw, gribble has ';;ping' which I use a lot with my shitty onion connection :) 10:13 < belcher> you can also ping with /ping 10:13 < waxwing> ah thanks two good suggestions :) 10:17 < hardtryer> ok, I'm here too 10:17 < hardtryer> I working all times on it 10:18 < waxwing> hardtryer, so you can't use the electrum joinmarket plugin with the new segwit version 10:18 < hardtryer> so what I understand from this point, is maybe the my problem with liquidity is because I use testnet? 10:18 < hardtryer> oh 10:18 < waxwing> and the testnet bots (they're mine) in the test pits are only the new segwit version 10:18 < waxwing> hardtryer, i added a comment to the readme of the electrum jm plugin github repo today to explain that it isn't updated 10:18 < hardtryer> that's why. I just broke my head in it 10:19 < hardtryer> ok, thx for expanation 10:19 < waxwing> you might still be able to use it if you connect it to the old version of joinmarket-clientserver daemon, but sorry i can't really help further with it right now 10:19 < hardtryer> I'm newer in joinmarket and bitcoin 10:19 < waxwing> currently i'm afraid there really isn't any good solution for joinmarket without bitcoin core. 10:19 < hardtryer> so the only working version of coinjoins is Qt? 10:20 < waxwing> about the only thing you can do is maybe use the electrum interface option in the joinmarket.cfg but it's very flaky and i'm not really sure it's working. 10:20 < waxwing> hardtryer, no it'll work with Qt or via command line, but you need Bitcoin Core 10:22 < hardtryer> intresting about that there is no good solution for joinmarket without bitcoin... Why is that? It's cause of privacy reason? 10:23 < waxwing> hardtryer, yes that's a big part of it. we had a poor privacy option to connect to a web api at blockr.io but we were never comfortable with offering it, and now it doesn't work any more (site is shutting down) 10:23 < waxwing> if you want to use a connection to electrum, or another web api, nothing's stopping you except the fact that nobody seems to want to work on it 10:23 < waxwing> there is a possibility of some kind of hybrid SPV version in the future (see discussion in Bitcoin Core about that) 10:24 < hardtryer> I'm really intresting in plugin, you know, for usual people, which just want use some kind of electrum and make transaction with joinmarket. 10:25 < waxwing> yup, understood. it was working earlier in the year, i got some positive feedback from someone using it. problem is no one would help me test it. 10:25 < hardtryer> ok, I see, thank for expanation. 10:26 < waxwing> i understand why it's an interesting option. it doesn't help that thomasv has said he definitely won't bundle any coinjoin plugin (due to legal concerns, he says) 10:26 < waxwing> so it's left with me having to bundle it as best i can. i want to build binaries ideally but there are nasty details there too. 10:26 < waxwing> well whatever, nothing is really that hard, it's just, where's the time to do it all 10:29 < hardtryer> Ok, I try to udnerstand all nicely, thats why I'm slow at answer 10:29 < waxwing> np thanks for taking an interest! :) 10:35 < hardtryer> So right now the problem is that all people, who uses the joinmarket, use new segwit version? It's still possible, for example, use plugin on 2 different clients, and send coinjoins which bound them 10:36 < waxwing> hardtryer, right now there is more liquidity on the old non-segwit version; the new segwit version requires people to spend money into a new wallet, so it'll take a while. 10:36 < waxwing> but more to the point, most people using joinmarket are using command line scripts, and using Bitcoin Core to connect to the blockchain 10:37 < hardtryer> so it's still possible to use plugin for real transactions? Just don't work with testnet? 10:37 < waxwing> hardtryer, i was trying to avoid saying it because i'm not sure, but i think so, BUT: note the points i added in the README today 10:38 < waxwing> you should do it like: use the binary joinmarketd executable from the specific linked release (i.e. not the latest release) 10:38 < waxwing> then hopefully running the plugin against the mainnet (real bitcoin) pit should work. 10:38 < waxwing> but testnet would not, because there are no testnet bots running against that old non-segwit version of joinmarket 10:38 < waxwing> sorry it's so complicated 10:39 < hardtryer> ok, understood. Yes, I see that the script are much more used solution than gui. It sound strange, cause as I think you can just make gui, which launch script and display result in some user friendly way. Or just some console tab 10:39 < waxwing> yes the joinmarket-qt is like that. 10:40 < hardtryer> no compicated, understood all. Nice expanation. 10:40 < waxwing> it's a matter of preference which is easier really, ultimately command line is better/more efficient but a lot of people don't realise it :_ 10:42 -!- belcher_ [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 10:43 < hardtryer> I think that command line is nice, but gui is much more friendly for new people, you can add some text, which explain all args and parametrs which is used. So you don't need to look in docs, just run gui and read all, and you can undersood all from main programm. That's why it's gui everywere in mass products. 10:43 < waxwing> hardtryer, yes, indeed. 10:44 < waxwing> there's no doubt that for a pretty big set of people, command line is never going to be an option. 10:44 < hardtryer> Can you clear the way, why and in which case is needed Bitcoin Core? Is it needed for using scripts? 10:47 < hardtryer> Now it's about 120Gb, so I can't even test it on my vmware linux mint, cause just don't want to wait a lot of time to download, and don't have enough space for it) 10:48 < waxwing> hardtryer, it's needed to query the blockchain for information about your addresses, and to check when transactions happen (and to push transactions onto the network) 10:48 < hardtryer> that's why first I try to find way to make coinjoins transaction without Bitcoin Core 10:48 < waxwing> es 10:48 < waxwing> yes i understand 10:49 < waxwing> it is possible to use it in 'pruned' mode where you only store a few gigabytes. but you have to download and verify it all first. 10:49 < waxwing> anyway i'd be repeating myself re; electrum and spv and stuff. maybe other people have an opinion about what the priorities should be. 10:49 < waxwing> we are all well aware that a fair number of users are put off from using it if only Bitcoin Core is supported. 10:58 < hardtryer> So bitcoin core is needed for scripts? Or you can choose the way they work, and use joinmarket via script without Bitcoin core? I haven't yet read about scripts, so that's why don't know nothing about them. I just work hard to understand how to use your Qt and electrum version last few days. 10:58 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 11:03 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07 < arubi> hardtryer, I think jm uses core for a getting a "view" of the network, for knowing about your addresses' funds, new transactions and blocks coming in.. etc. joinmarket probably validates all its own transactions and scripts itself. running your own node is just security and privacy on top of that 11:08 < waxwing> hardtryer, bitcoin core vs other blockchain interfaces is a separate question to scripts vs Qt/GUI 11:09 < hardtryer> ok understood, thx. 11:09 < arubi> oh waxwing, success in running jm-cs on an ubuntu xenial docker in travis : https://travis-ci.org/fivepiece/joinmarket-clientserver . now I'm gonna try setting up more OSes and stuff, maybe get it working as a matrix of jobs :) 11:11 < waxwing> arubi, thanks :) 11:11 < arubi> I kinda want to avoid wget'ing the core release binaries from the website every time.. think they're gonna ban me again if I get travis to torrent it? :P 11:13 < hardtryer> waxwing, did you think about adding to qt 'ob-watcher.py' to see possible orders from here? I think it will be great help for newbers as me :D 11:15 < hardtryer> so right now working with only gui is like poking blindly :D 11:16 < hardtryer> you never know, do you connected to right irc channel or not, is all settings normal, and it's hard to find where is problem at all, and why all still doesn't work) 11:19 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19 < waxwing> hardtryer, well to some extent; but a couple of things: 11:19 < waxwing> if you have wrongly configured irc channels, you may also be left wondering what went wrong, if using command line 11:19 < waxwing> also, if you go into the "Coinjoins" tab in the Qt gui, you will see a lower window pane with console output. 11:20 < waxwing> probably should have made it a separate tab, oh well. 11:27 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@92-247-229-226.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #joinmarket 11:27 < hardtryer> ok, understood. 11:29 < waxwing> hardtryer, oh 'ob-watcher to gui', yeah i guess there's some sense, there's supposed to be a public link (see in the topic of this channel) you can check. also when you do a coinjoin, if you actually find counterparties, they will be displayed and you can check their fees. i guess you already knew that. 11:30 < waxwing> arubi, i'm probably not going to understand the answer, but am i right in saying it doesn't build openssl that way 11:32 < waxwing> arubi, i don't know about the wget-ing. i kinda cheated and used the ppa as you know. 11:32 < hardtryer> public link, you mean https://joinmarket.me/ob/ ? Yes, I know, but you never know from which irc channel it is. I mean that you can't see what orders you see with your irc settings. 11:32 < arubi> waxwing, ssl build is removed. the build is using libssl-dev that comes with python-dev 11:33 < waxwing> arubi, got it thanks 11:34 < waxwing> hardtryer, yes. it is using the public mainnet joinmarket pit channels, #joinmarket-pit on agora and cyberguerrilla 11:34 < waxwing> technically though you're 100% correct in as much as people could be using any IRC channel, or indeed, not IRC 11:34 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-227-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket 11:34 < waxwing> but from a squishy consensus point of view, that is 'the' public pit 11:36 < hardtryer> Yes, I knew about that it should displayed, but I still never see that window, cause never succeed in making coinjoin's transaction (I used testnet, and don't knew about segwit). 11:40 < hardtryer> I think that you can add to readme info about agora and cyberguerrilla irc channel. Info about they are right now the main places to joinmarket. Cause for me it took some long time to find on which irc is making coinjoins deal. Maybe it's my fault, cause I try to make it in fast and easy way, don't RTFM carefully or some errors like this... ) 11:42 < waxwing> it's in the config file that's created by default. it's not like you have to look them up. 11:43 < waxwing> the config file also gives the links for tor connection if you prefer to do that (a lot of people do) 11:44 < hardtryer> ok, thx. 11:44 < hardtryer> About my testing right now 11:44 < hardtryer> I have something that confuse me 11:44 < hardtryer> So as I told before, I test now electrum plugin on 2 system 11:47 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47 < hardtryer> both make same settings (except absurb_fee_per_kb, I try to change it by deleting one zero, so now on one system it is 15000, and I just add here one more zero to return it to 150000, but think it's not so important). But even there is same settings, there are different debug info in daemon console 11:48 < hardtryer> on write that unhandled noticed: verne.freenode.net, other rajaniemi.freenode.net. 11:49 < hardtryer> In settings I choice chat.freenode.net, so I'm can't understand, from where is verne or rajaniemi? 11:49 < waxwing> you can ignore that, that's just freenode servers 11:50 < hardtryer> oh, ok 11:50 < hardtryer> just wandering, did I connected to correct irc or not 11:51 < waxwing> hardtryer, so are you still trying to use testnet? or? 11:52 < hardtryer> yes, I try to make coinjoins with 2 testnet's plugin, which send 100 mBTC to 2 different addresses. They must find each other on IRC and make coinjoins transaction, as I understand, right? 11:53 < hardtryer> I choice number of counterparties 1 11:54 < waxwing> hardtryer, as i told you, the bots in the testnet pit are segwit bots. they can't be used with the electrum plugin. 11:54 < waxwing> they're just 3 bots i set up on my vps to help test segwit. nothing stopping anyone running more testnet bots. 11:55 < waxwing> but, nobody is at the moment. people mostly don't bother running testnet i'm afraid. 11:55 < hardtryer> so coinjoins can't be doing between 2 people? Every time it use bots on server? 11:55 < waxwing> yes it can be done manually, i.e. people just pass around copies of transactions, e.g. via encrypted email. 11:55 < waxwing> that happens sometimes; obviously, it is not a very common thing :) 11:56 < hardtryer> oh 11:56 < hardtryer> I try to make this kind of thing using your plugin 11:56 < hardtryer> expecting that 2 client find each other on irc 11:57 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:58 < hardtryer> so how I can make testnet work for me? I need to launch some myself bot on irc? For this I need to use trumble, right? 11:59 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 12:00 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #joinmarket 12:00 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 12:05 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11 < hardtryer> I hadn't seen any words about the role of the bot in coinjoins. So I thinking of them as makers (http://imgur.com/C6w0Pgf). But I expected that any client can be the maker. 12:16 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 14:02 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 14:07 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:31 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:53 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-227-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:02 -!- coins123 [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has joined #joinmarket 15:02 -!- coins123 [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:02 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 15:07 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-227-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket 15:38 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-227-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 16:03 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 16:05 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 16:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41 -!- hardtryer [~swich@93.170.111.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 18:05 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 18:09 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:28 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 19:05 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 19:10 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 20:11 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 21:12 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21 -!- d3spwn [53a19dc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.161.157.200] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:09 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@to-18-74-238.service.infuturo.it] has joined #joinmarket 22:09 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:11 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 22:29 -!- hardtryer [~swich@93.170.111.85] has joined #joinmarket 23:01 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #joinmarket 23:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has joined #joinmarket 23:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@ip-244-225.sn1.clouditalia.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:08 -!- coins123 [~coins123@unaffiliated/coins123] has joined #joinmarket 23:16 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-93-17-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:39 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has joined #joinmarket