--- Day changed Thu Mar 08 2018
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09:56 < belcher> you know in a schnorr signature aggregation joinmarket environment, there can be one fewer step of interaction
09:57 < belcher> makers can include their inputs and outputs in their !offer, because privacy doesnt matter
09:59 < arubi> hm, I don't follow
09:59 < arubi> re. privacy doesn't matter bit
10:00 < belcher> if people are doing signature aggregation to reduce the fees they pay
10:00 < belcher> the coinjoin amounts dont need to be the same
10:00 < arubi> but all inputs and outputs are still listed in the tx right?  it's only the signature that there's one of
10:00 < belcher> yes     
10:01 < arubi> so wouldn't that pinpoint the taker?
10:01 < belcher> right now probably everyone in joinmarket is using it to improve their privacy, if sig-ag was added then they could also use it to reduce fees
10:01 < belcher> in fact they might use it _only_ to reduce fees, not privacy
10:01 < arubi> ahh, understood
10:01 < belcher> then the coinjoin amounts could all be different, and there could be one fewer interaction step
10:02 < belcher> im imagining bitcoin block containing just one big coinjoin transaction
10:02 < arubi> that would be freaking awesome :)
10:02 < belcher> also with CT and bulletproofs
10:03 < arubi> with CT we have confidential amounts too, so that's a huge plus
10:03 < belcher> one issue is, joinmarket is a centralized meeting point... though maybe we could invent some kind of p2p network that can coordinate coinjoins but not be centralized
10:04 < arubi> as long as there are enough avenues for cj'ing, it's fine that they're centralized I think.  if one starts censoring, fall back to a different one
10:05 < arubi> but yea a p2p one would be much much better and could also probably be incorporated into the wallet itself
10:05 < belcher> idk, couldnt you use that for solving the double spend problem.. like "its fine if one paypal starts censoring because we'll just use another"
10:06 < arubi> in my mind the cj meetup place is just a dumb pipe for relaying offers
10:09 < belcher> it needs anti-DOS i guess
10:11 < arubi> for a non-private cj for fee savings, I think something like sighash_double would be really cool.  one input -> two outputs where the sighash doesn't commit to the input and outputs index in the tx
10:12 < arubi> so you could just pre-sign a payment+change and publish it somewhere, then others could pick it up and put aggregate it into their own tx
10:14 < arubi> of course that's re-introducing malleability, but maybe if it's worth the fees..
10:16 < arubi> well rethinking, maybe it's not so good in itself because anybody could just relay that pre-signed triplet..  hm
10:22 < arubi> maybe alongside a delegated covenant script to assert a total fee in the tx which is higher than what you're signing off on
10:23 < belcher> something like that really would be great if it could remove more of the interactivity
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11:03 < waxwing> i'd have to go and check on the latest, but i guess with the schnorr version you'd be sending your nonce points with your offers. but i'm not sure if the new model would involve less actual round trips belcher ?
11:03 < waxwing> i guess it might. devil in the details etc.
11:03 < belcher> yes you're right, maybe
11:04 < belcher> a definite maybe
11:05 < waxwing> :)     
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