--- Day changed Thu Mar 08 2018 00:37 -!- takamatsu [takamatsu@nat/redhat/x-vtidlomdlmbrknnj] has joined #joinmarket 03:04 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #joinmarket 03:09 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 03:31 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #joinmarket 04:52 -!- dx25 [~dx25@174-19-89-235.omah.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52 -!- dx25 [~dx25@174-19-89-235.omah.qwest.net] has joined #joinmarket 06:12 -!- takamatsu_ [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has joined #joinmarket 06:12 -!- takamatsu [takamatsu@nat/redhat/x-vtidlomdlmbrknnj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:18 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-107-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #joinmarket 07:22 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-107-237-219-201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 09:20 -!- takamatsu_ [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has quit [Quit: (┛◉Д◉)┛┻━┻] 09:53 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:56 < belcher> you know in a schnorr signature aggregation joinmarket environment, there can be one fewer step of interaction 09:57 < belcher> makers can include their inputs and outputs in their !offer, because privacy doesnt matter 09:59 < arubi> hm, I don't follow 09:59 < arubi> re. privacy doesn't matter bit 10:00 < belcher> if people are doing signature aggregation to reduce the fees they pay 10:00 < belcher> the coinjoin amounts dont need to be the same 10:00 < arubi> but all inputs and outputs are still listed in the tx right? it's only the signature that there's one of 10:00 < belcher> yes 10:01 < arubi> so wouldn't that pinpoint the taker? 10:01 < belcher> right now probably everyone in joinmarket is using it to improve their privacy, if sig-ag was added then they could also use it to reduce fees 10:01 < belcher> in fact they might use it _only_ to reduce fees, not privacy 10:01 < arubi> ahh, understood 10:01 < belcher> then the coinjoin amounts could all be different, and there could be one fewer interaction step 10:02 < belcher> im imagining bitcoin block containing just one big coinjoin transaction 10:02 < arubi> that would be freaking awesome :) 10:02 < belcher> also with CT and bulletproofs 10:03 < arubi> with CT we have confidential amounts too, so that's a huge plus 10:03 < belcher> one issue is, joinmarket is a centralized meeting point... though maybe we could invent some kind of p2p network that can coordinate coinjoins but not be centralized 10:04 < arubi> as long as there are enough avenues for cj'ing, it's fine that they're centralized I think. if one starts censoring, fall back to a different one 10:05 < arubi> but yea a p2p one would be much much better and could also probably be incorporated into the wallet itself 10:05 < belcher> idk, couldnt you use that for solving the double spend problem.. like "its fine if one paypal starts censoring because we'll just use another" 10:06 < arubi> in my mind the cj meetup place is just a dumb pipe for relaying offers 10:09 < belcher> it needs anti-DOS i guess 10:11 < arubi> for a non-private cj for fee savings, I think something like sighash_double would be really cool. one input -> two outputs where the sighash doesn't commit to the input and outputs index in the tx 10:12 < arubi> so you could just pre-sign a payment+change and publish it somewhere, then others could pick it up and put aggregate it into their own tx 10:14 < arubi> of course that's re-introducing malleability, but maybe if it's worth the fees.. 10:16 < arubi> well rethinking, maybe it's not so good in itself because anybody could just relay that pre-signed triplet.. hm 10:22 < arubi> maybe alongside a delegated covenant script to assert a total fee in the tx which is higher than what you're signing off on 10:23 < belcher> something like that really would be great if it could remove more of the interactivity 10:45 -!- Claudia2Corkery [~Claudia2C@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #joinmarket 11:01 -!- Maximilian40Vand [~Maximilia@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #joinmarket 11:03 < waxwing> i'd have to go and check on the latest, but i guess with the schnorr version you'd be sending your nonce points with your offers. but i'm not sure if the new model would involve less actual round trips belcher ? 11:03 < waxwing> i guess it might. devil in the details etc. 11:03 < belcher> yes you're right, maybe 11:04 < belcher> a definite maybe 11:05 < waxwing> :) 11:42 -!- Maximilian40Vand [~Maximilia@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@gateway/tor-sasl/lnostdal] has joined #joinmarket 11:58 -!- MaxSan [~user@91.207.102.163] has joined #joinmarket 12:01 -!- Eusebio56Bergstr [~Eusebio56@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #joinmarket 13:05 -!- Eusebio56Bergstr [~Eusebio56@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11 -!- MaxSan [~user@91.207.102.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01 -!- Cydney25Nicolas [~Cydney25N@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #joinmarket 14:17 -!- M1 [~michail@michail.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:28 -!- beIcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 15:43 -!- M1 [~michail@michail.com] has joined #joinmarket 15:54 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34 -!- Cydney25Nicolas [~Cydney25N@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:44 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01 -!- MaxSan [~user@86.105.9.67] has joined #joinmarket 19:10 -!- MaxSan [~user@86.105.9.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:16 -!- MaxSan [~user@86.105.9.67] has joined #joinmarket 19:54 -!- MaxSan [~user@86.105.9.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.156.175.59] has joined #joinmarket 20:22 -!- technonerd [~techno@unaffiliated/technonerd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26 -!- technonerd [~techno@unaffiliated/technonerd] has joined #joinmarket 20:42 -!- Relay-Free-Agora [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:47 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.156.175.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.156.175.171] has joined #joinmarket 20:59 -!- Relay-Free-Agora [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A574.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 22:01 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@gateway/tor-sasl/lnostdal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-37-38-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #joinmarket 23:41 -!- xcvvcx [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:45 -!- kunla [~kunla@bl13-61-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:51 -!- xcvvcx [53e42f33@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.228.47.51] has joined #joinmarket