--- Day changed Sun Apr 29 2018
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04:37 < belcher> waxwing im going to merge the multiwallet PR
04:38 < belcher> and open an issue discussing how to merge together joinmarket-clientserver and joinmarket (i.e. replace jm with jm-cs)
05:09 < waxwing> belcher, cool thanks
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05:18 < GitHub162> [joinmarket-clientserver] chris-belcher pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vpBTf
05:18 < GitHub162> joinmarket-clientserver/master 86455c7 chris-belcher: Merge #133: Added support for Core's multiwallet feature...
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05:18 < GitHub131> [joinmarket-clientserver] chris-belcher closed pull request #133: Added support for Core's multiwallet feature (master...multiwallet) https://git.io/vps42
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11:47 < GitHub126> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vpBWY
11:47 < GitHub126> joinmarket-clientserver/master 4fcd28b AdamISZ: Add note to explain how to manually install PyQt to virtualenv...
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11:50 < arubi> waxwing, re this ^, I'm still on it.  it's pretty messy to get right in script-ish ways but I will have time to continue on the weekend :)
11:51 < waxwing> np at all, thanks for doing it
11:51 < arubi> np.  say did you have time to look at scriptless scripts over ecdsa?  very exciting..
11:52 < arubi> I don't have intuition for paillier stuff so looking into that.  hopefully I can understand it eventually
12:01 < waxwing> can't say i understand the underlying number theory really, although haven't really tried very hard, but it's just an encryption scheme with an additive homomorphism, you know like E(a+b) = E(a) + E(b). then they combine both keys and nonces with multiplication and do the sig equation in two parts. i mean you can easily see roughly how it works.
12:01 < waxwing> ah but i'm blethering only about the first part of it, how to do the ecdsa as 2PC. the other bit is how you do adaptor sigs, that's what's new over the earlier papers. i haven't even read it yet.
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12:09 < arubi> so is that going to be the same one sig for two different keys, or one sig for one combined key?  I'm guessing the it's the latter.  I'm wondering if something like that can be useful for coinswap basically.  well if you figure out more then I'd love to know
12:10 < waxwing> well yeah. if it works as I/we think, then sure, one could just do the protocol i outlined in that blog post, but with ECDSA. btw the paper refs my blog post :) shows how niche this stuff is, nobody's written it down anywhere else i guess.
12:11 < belcher> we briefly thought about using pallier ecdsa with coinswap
12:12 < waxwing> i'll try and get to grips with the adaptor sig bit now .. i just traced the basic algebra of the 2 party sig part, seemed like it made sense, although you never know until you code it.
12:12 < waxwing> belcher, yep i know. i was asking in wizards yesterday if anyone knew what had stopped anyone from doing it.
12:12 < arubi> hah, sweet.  I didn't even get to that part yet then.  just went diving into the older papers for paillier and lindel's :) 
12:13 < waxwing> it seems a bit unclear. lindell's paper claims a huge speedup, but then for 2 party, doubt there's any issue there.
12:13 < arubi> right I remember you were suggesting it belcher (I think it was you who did?),  now I feel like I wasted the opportunity to learn about it there
12:13 < belcher> yes, and i got the idea from gmaxwell and roasbeef
12:13 < waxwing> right, so to get it clear; at first the idea was more to have addresses with bigger anonymity set, wasn't it?
12:14 < waxwing> whereas if we can get it to do adaptor sigs, we can get rid of the hash preimage/htlc part.
12:14 < waxwing> in the adaptor sig version of the coinswap you can use nlocktime only based backouts.
12:14 < waxwing> which is interesting partly because Core uses nlocktime by default
12:14 < belcher> yes, to use coinswap where the addresses look like p2pkh
12:15 < belcher> it was very interesting in the case where segwit gets held up for ages, as a way to get privacy using much less block space
12:15 < waxwing> oh right yeah
12:21 < arubi> ah crap freenode HS going down, cya on the other side
12:22 < belcher> join cyberguerilla HS
12:22 < belcher> there is a relay
12:23 < arubi> oh right
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12:24 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] phew
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12:25 < arubi> ah well that was fast, assuming that's all of it
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13:21 < player1> hi     
13:29 < waxwing> player1, don't ask to ask :)
13:33 < player1> ok I managed to get the qt client running on Ubuntu by applying a fix written by waxwing: simply copying the PyQt4 and sipconfig.py etc from the python2.7 packages folder to the JM client server site-packages folder. I ran a few test transactions and deactivated, re-activated the jmvenv and eventually I managed to break it and was getting the old error when trying to load the QT client:
13:34 < player1> ImportError: No module named PyQt4
13:35 < player1> I managed to fix it by installing JM again and simply moving the config, wallet file and cmtdata across then applying the same fix mentioned above. I am just running JM from a different location this time
13:35 < player1> seems to be working so far
13:35 < player1> I will try to recreate the error
13:36 < waxwing> hmm hard to see how it can sort of just stop working, i mean specifically, how it can somehow "lose" the pyqt4 package in the virtualenv. if it works once it should keep working.
13:36 < player1> this is all just for research purposes on my part, I am just tinkering with it to see how the software works so no probs in terms of losing bitcoins, I am big enough and ugly enough to look after that side of things :)
13:36 < player1> the weird thing is the package is in the folder, I can see it. I even tried copying it again
13:36 < waxwing> could be some error like you thought you were in the venv when you weren't , the files were deleted/removed somehow (!?). else, anyone else have an idea?
13:37  * arubi kinda guesses two virtualenvs
13:37 < waxwing> heh don't think lack of Qt4 will lose bitcoins :)
13:37 < waxwing> arubi, hmm .. like loading one inside another?
13:37 < arubi> no just having two distinct directories
13:38 < arubi> maybe more than one jm directory, and venv in each
13:38 < player1> I only had one directory
13:38 < arubi> hm     
13:38 < waxwing> what happens if you accidentally source the activate script while inside? does it error? never thought about that.
13:38 < waxwing> or just switch
13:38 < arubi> I think it's set up to handle it
13:39 < arubi> iirc
13:40 < player1> I will carry on playing with it. I managed to fix the issue for now just by reinstalling everything in a new dir
13:40 < arubi> yea the first thing the script does is deactivate itself
13:59 < player1> I have my bitcoin client running over tor, does JM need to be configured to run over tor or will it do that automatically?
14:00 < belcher> it needs to be configured
14:00 < arubi> player1, yes, it should be in the joinmarket.cfg file.  commented out at first
14:00 < belcher> but even tor wont do much
14:00 < belcher> by default joinmarket uses an electrum server, so that server can see all your addresses and link them together
14:01 < belcher> the best privacy comes from telling joinmarket to connect to your own bitcoin core node, since that downloads the entire blockchain and scans it for your addresses instead of sending them to a server
14:01 < belcher> and bitcoin core has mostly the same privacy whether you use tor or not
14:01 < player1> I have it setup to go through my node. I will take a look at the conig file.
14:02 < belcher> ah ok, as long as its through your node its most of the way there
14:02 < belcher> it isnt by default because setting up a full node is a bit of a hassle :P
14:03 < player1> No hassle for me :) I just wondered if any of the irc traffic needed to go over tor
14:03 < belcher> ahhh
14:03 < belcher> yes, tor certainly helps there
14:03 < belcher> oh right so i misunderstood, you meant irc not the blockchain interface
14:03 < player1> yeah
14:04 < belcher> yeah they're in the joinmarket.cfg file commented out
14:04 < player1> k I am taking a look
14:04 < belcher> one of them is 6dvj6v5imhny3anf.onion:6697 since thats also the same place as the onion #joinmarket channel
14:07 < player1> nothing is commented out in my config file, do you just change “socks5 = true, true” and then add the onion addresses in host?
14:08 < arubi> hmm the file should be pretty big with lots of comments
14:08 < player1> let me take a look at the repo
14:08 < arubi> you can see how the default file will look like here : jmclient/jmclient/configure.py
14:08 < player1> ok     
14:09 < arubi> basically if you remove the current joinmarket.cfg (just rename it I) and run a script, it should create itself
14:09 < player1> yeah I remember it created it when I started it first time
14:09 < player1> ok     
14:10 < arubi> run a script == just any of the scripts, say wallet-tool.py.  I believe that should create the .cfg
14:10 < player1> I got it
14:10 < player1> thanks, that makes sense
14:10 < arubi> cheers
14:14 < player1> This is a neat piece of kit you guys have made, I am having a lot of fun playing around with it
14:16 < belcher> glad you like it
14:16 < belcher> how did you hear about it?
14:16 < player1> word of mouth
14:17 < belcher> cool
14:17 < player1> also I used to use some software you might have called Chainalysis for my old job and I remember this was one of their “blackholes”
14:17 < player1> *migh have heard of
14:18 < belcher> very very interesting
14:18 < belcher> yes someone else had an account there and got in touch with us, we gave him some addresses to try
14:18 < belcher> apparently they just display a % linkage
14:18 < player1> bitmixer failed because it was centralised and a single person could be targeted and influenced. What I like about this is that it’s just code and you guys are authors. It is distributed system.
14:18 < player1> yeah LE hated it
14:18 < belcher> like "from this address, X% goes to exchanges, Y% to casinos, Z% to mining pools, etc etc"
14:19 < player1> LE don’t like losing ‘visibility’
14:19 < belcher> well its like that with gold
14:19 < player1> the problem might be that in the future exchanges will be forced to run whitelist only policy
14:19 < belcher> LE can still control things in that if someone shows up with lots of gold at a bank, they need to fill out paperwork
14:19 < belcher> im mostly interested in bitcoin fungibility
14:19 < player1> as in the burden is on the customer to proove the source of funds
14:19 < belcher> yes     
14:20 < belcher> such a whitelist could be a bit of a disaster for fungibility, depending on the details
14:20 < player1> there are already laws for fiat at the moment
14:20 < player1> but it just applies to MSBs and Banks
14:20 < player1> it sure will be a disaster, we’re sleep walking right in to it imo
14:20 < belcher> yep, if you show up with large amounts of cash then you fill out paperwork, its fungible but also lawful
14:20 < belcher> LN should help too, since on-chain only the channel opening and closing txes are visible
14:21 < player1> the problem is that right now none of the banks trust each other and the financial system just grinds to a halt with all this overhead of enhanced KYC
14:21 < player1> too much procedural KYC creates a kind of ‘red queen’ effect on the system where they have to run to stand still
14:21 < belcher> interesting
14:22 < player1> it’s happening right now, even attorney escrows are being flagged for eKYC
14:22 < player1> the banks don’t even trust the law firms lol
14:22 < belcher> trusted third parties are security holes, as someone famous said
14:22 < player1> too much risk in case the money turns out to be linked to OFAC or something
14:22 < player1> yeah
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21:54 < waxwing> (re: comments in the joinmarket.cfg: when you run the joinmarket-qt.py and make edits to settings, it overwrites joinmarket.cfg and unfortunately loses all the comments.)
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