--- Day changed Tue May 15 2018
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03:11 < GitHub8> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vp7gA
03:11 < GitHub8> joinmarket-clientserver/master a6785e4 AdamISZ: Update docs to include non-segwit option and updates on segwit info
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03:25 < GitHub51> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ force-pushed master from a6785e4 to 4089f3c: https://git.io/v5bgz
03:25 < GitHub51> joinmarket-clientserver/master 4089f3c AdamISZ: Update docs to include non-segwit option and updates on segwit info
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06:27 < waxwing> thoughts welcome on this: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/136#issuecomment-389165946
06:52 < belcher> waxwing maybe edit to say which repos, so like "Checkout a new branch legacy and push current master of /joinmarket to it."
06:52 < belcher> or /joinmarket-clientserver
06:56 < belcher> i understand what you intend to do and i completely agree with it, though i regret that im not very good at git so might not be able to help much with the specifics of commits and preserving history
06:58 < waxwing> heh, might need a stiff drink before doing it :)
06:58 < waxwing> yes specify repo more precisely, will do
07:00 < waxwing> updated to note: all non-repo specifc actions are on joinmarket repo.
07:23 < waxwing> but also, it'd def be good to have someone who knows git better than I (not hard) to offer their opinion on the "right" way to do it (as long as it's not incredibly complicated)
07:48 < waxwing> big fee spike last hour or two
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09:28 < d3spwn> has been happening every few days the last weeks
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09:47 < quitobro> 2018-05-15 12:46:09,682 [MainThread  ] [WARNI]  ERROR not enough liquidity in the orderbook n=6 suitable-counterparties=4 amount=[scrubbed] totalorders=4
09:47 < quitobro> 2018-05-15 12:46:09,683 [MainThread  ] [INFO ]  Taker not continuing after receipt of orderbook
09:48 < quitobro> this is surprising because in joinmarket.cfg i have set minimum_makers to 2
10:01 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] i believe the minimum_makers only applies once a coinjoin is actually started and some of the chosen makers do not respond (then it falls back to the minimum)
10:17 < quitobro> AgoraRelay: yea ok. i still have no idea where the n=6 (default?) came from
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11:06 < waxwing> quitobro, there is an annoying detail there, if you use tumbler.
11:06 < waxwing> there is another minmakers setting which overrides. do tumbler.py --help
11:06 < waxwing> need to update/remove that, thanks for noting it.
11:08 < waxwing> huh even that is not the whole story is it. damn that's too confusing :)
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11:37 < quitobro> waxwing: the plot thickens?
11:38 < waxwing> sorry back in a while
11:38 < quitobro> np. btw, is RBF or CPFP possible for a coinjoin tx?
11:39 < arubi> only cpfp is reasonable.  rbf would mean everyone signs again
11:40 < arubi> also if someone's rbf'ing, then it's probably the taker.  if somebody's listening for replacement, then it's easy to pinpoint their output (at least the change)
11:41 < arubi> with cpfp, it's either the receiver doing it or the taker's change.  maybe best to also not do that :)
11:42 < arubi> it would be easy to know if it's the receiver or taker based on the output amount, not that you could control the receiver
12:11 < waxwing> quitobro, oh sorry, was distracted with dinner earlier, now I think about it, of course, AlexCato is right. minimum_makers in joinmarket.cfg is a fallback from what you start with to what you get back as answers in the first phase of coinjoin construction (so, they respond to offer with utxos, you build transaction, but if they then don't answer with signatures, you can still carry on above minimum_makers
12:12 < waxwing> but yes, if your schedule entry has number of counterparties 6 and you only find 4 offers in the orderbook that meet your criteria, then nothing will happen.
12:12 < waxwing> your question about default 6 : the default for sendpayment is 5 to 7. for tumbler i think it's similar, let me check.
12:12 < waxwing> right for tumbler the default is 6 with standard deviation 1, so usually 5-7
12:13 < waxwing> it's weird how i never really thought about this nuance; that "minimum_makers = 2" will naturally seem, to the user, that any number of *offers* >=2 is OK, but that's not what it does at all.
12:16 < waxwing> i agree with arubi 's points re: rbf and cpfp, although i don't think anyone's ever thought about it seriously here.
12:21 < belcher> RBF is discussed a lot in this issue https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/issues/715
12:21 < belcher> minimum_makers in joinmarket.cfg seems to have a slightly misleading name then
12:22 < belcher> we should somehow get more makers, maybe a PR drive on reddit/twitter
12:22 < belcher> combining the two orderbooks should help
12:22 < belcher> there used to be many makers before 2017 or so, i wonder if a lot of people just sold coins during the bull market
12:23 < waxwing> sorry default *sendpayment* is 4 to 6, not 5 to 7
12:24 < waxwing> belcher, thanks for the correction, yes, it has been discussed a lot, i think i should have said "i haven't *considered* it at all really", because it's one of a bunch of things that i'm just inclined to do work on. seems like other things are priority.
12:24 < belcher> yep     
12:24 < waxwing> no mystery, tons of people just stopped using it when the fees went up and the demand disappeared.
12:24 < waxwing> and yeah the split of course is the other aspect.
12:31 < waxwing> re: minimum_makers, i suspect it can be adjusted to behave in the way that you'd more naturally expect; whilst it is two slightly different things, the distinction is probably not that interesting to users.
12:32 < waxwing> if anybody wants to do that as a PR, i'd *guess* it won't be very hard.
12:32 < waxwing> at the same time, should fold in (and probably delete) the same setting in the tumbler config.
12:39 < waxwing> on the split, fwiw it may not disappear for a long while. some people just want to do p2pkh joins, for reasons.
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12:50 < arubi> ah right, now I'm remember the "sign many rbf'ed", a year goes by fast :)
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13:48 < waxwing> huh, sorry when i was describing it above i screwed it up again :) minimum_makers is: you receive N offers, you interact to get *utxos* for the transaction, and you make the transaction with < N if less than N respond, the *signature* stage is the second one, where you *can't* fallback; you have to give up and start again (because tx must be recreated).
13:48 < waxwing> quitobro, ^ (not that you probably care about that :))
14:03 < waxwing> ummm ... https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/882972992791351297
14:03 < waxwing> oh, not new apparently. my bad.
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