--- Day changed Thu May 17 2018 00:37 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has joined #joinmarket 01:05 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/lucy] hi 01:05 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/lucy] anyonethere? 01:11 < waxwing> sure 01:12 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/lucy] can anyone help me to make some money? 01:13 < waxwing> no, wrong place 04:37 < d3spwn> just one more follow up question. looking at the code it seems jm does seem to keep the master seed unencrypted in memory for as long as the client is active. is that correct? 04:40 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40 < waxwing> d3spwn, yes i believe that's correct. (Wallet.seed) 04:46 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 04:51 -!- diogosergio [~diogorser@81.92.203.112] has joined #joinmarket 04:58 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has joined #joinmarket 05:09 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:10 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 05:36 -!- diogosergio [~diogorser@81.92.203.112] has quit [Quit: diogosergio] 05:37 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/Kennu] rip cgan 06:38 < belcher> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJZnkm0jW5E 06:38 < belcher> talk by me at london bitcoin dev meetup about joinmarket 06:39 < waxwing> cool :) seems to have come out reasonably well :) 06:39 < waxwing> bit echoey but not problematically so 07:09 < waxwing> estimatefee 3 is now up to 100 btw 07:09 < waxwing> sorry i mean estimatesmartfee 07:09 < waxwing> was caused by a chunk a while back i think, easiest to see here: https://anduck.net/bitcoin/fees/ 07:10 < waxwing> belcher, should we add in the conservative option somehow? or inform people? not sure 07:10 < belcher> i dont know 07:11 < belcher> conservative option is apparently meant to be used when you can RBF 07:11 < belcher> im not sure fee estimation can ever really work well, its attempting to predict future prices after all 07:11 < waxwing> ah. good point. well, people have the > 144 option, i hope they use it. i know i do. 07:12 < belcher> yeah id say thats the best 07:12 < belcher> block space has its own price 08:28 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@173-9-124-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #joinmarket 09:24 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 10:40 < d3spwn> these number of coinjoins per day you guys mentioned in that talk. is that in total or per maker? 10:42 < belcher> i think waxwing and i mentioned a few different numbers and circumstances 10:42 < belcher> i meant per maker 11:04 < d3spwn> excellent talk though, especially the q&a 11:06 < belcher> cheers 11:13 < waxwing> about # of coinjoins, adlai was running this cjhunt thing, i have a feeling it's not up right now, it's a nice thing that could be monitored globally. false positive rate needn't be very large, so you could get kinda accurate figures. malte moser had some numbers in his paper, also the blocksci stuff had some more (they included a joinmarket-specific section in their latest paper iirc) 11:14 < waxwing> as i remember it, the false positive becomes a significant problem at about 3 participants; the number of those is very low from JM 11:15 < waxwing> you can also record !hp2 numbers in the pit but i can't remember offhand how reliable that's going to be. 11:23 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] seems that onion connections are somehow muted on freenode? 11:23 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] belcher, ping, you guys aren't getting my messages on #coinswap I'm guessing 11:23 < belcher> the last thing i saw was obviously only alice should be able to figure it out from the signature, so if some setup like that is even possible, bob would have to use her pubkey somehow along the way.. just thinking out loud 11:24 < waxwing> ah yeah better here :) 11:24 < waxwing> belcher, oh so you made a bridge to both cgan and agora, that's nice 11:25 < belcher> actually alexcato runs it :) 11:26 < waxwing> oh, thanks alexcato , then :) 11:31 < belcher> btw have you guys noticed the exchange rate thing 11:31 < belcher> when the price moves then your bots see many more coinjoins 11:36 < waxwing> i was thinking about that after you said it; but in recent month or two it's hard to pin down the exact times when the price is volatile vs not 11:37 < belcher> what about before 2017? 11:38 < waxwing> Oh. Well, don't have any such data to hand :) 11:38 < belcher> i definitely remember a day or two when there were zero coinjoins, and the day after there were 40-50 and the price volume/volatility 11:38 < waxwing> i have a feeling there were quite distinct weekly cycles in JM then. maybe i'm imagining it. 11:39 < belcher> funny to think that takers have a stronger privacy guarantee than makers, but the gridchain 445 btc guy chose to be a maker 11:41 < belcher> must be low time preference i guess 11:41 < belcher> and cheapness, he didnt want to pay miner fees 11:42 < waxwing> yeah there are many possible reasons, some rational, some based on misunderstanding. 11:42 < waxwing> it's definitely the *easiest* way you could do it. 11:50 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has joined #joinmarket 11:51 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has left #joinmarket [] 12:04 < d3spwn> running a maker is kinda like a free tumbler i suppose 12:04 < waxwing> worse privacy. btw you can actually do maker with negative fee, just don't make it more than a tiny bit negative :) 12:05 < waxwing> there is also a concept "patientsendpayment", there was a script but still issue open to rebuild it in the new version (although seems it wasn't really used in old); mix with maker for X time then switch to taker. 12:06 < arubi> test 12:06 < waxwing> passed 12:06 < waxwing> it seems you have write but not read access to #coinswap :) 12:06 < waxwing> or maybe just huge lag, dunno 12:06 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] passed like after 20 minutes 12:06 < belcher> i mostly saw the point of patient send payment to explain that one script could be both a maker and taker 12:06 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] https://gist.github.com/fivepiece/d311b4621edb0149847d8c43e62fe52c#file-coinswap_noninteractive_in_the_clear-md 12:06 < belcher> i dont think anyone had that low time preference hah 12:06 < waxwing> right. was a good idea for sure belcher :) 12:07 < waxwing> i'd be willing to bet there are participants today who are using that approach (want mix but just use long running yg instead of tumbler). 12:07 < belcher> very low time preference mixing 12:07 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] my silly attempt. too much tweaking going around. we can find better ways to tweak anyway, doesn't have to be (scalar + point) 12:07 < waxwing> i mean it's definitely not as good in one aspect, privacy, but ... 12:08 < d3spwn> some might benefit from having a large utxo being split up in smaller more usable ones 12:09 < waxwing> yes d3spwn , but even the opposite too! they can consolidate, cheekily, at lower cost, our algos are not as hot as they should be on that front. 12:12 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has joined #joinmarket 12:13 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16 < waxwing> "scalar + point" is impossible fwiw :) 12:16 < waxwing> if arubi can still read this on cgan, yeah, that looks good. we can consider it a PoC :) 12:29 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has quit [Quit: diogorsergio] 13:37 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 13:38 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 13:41 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 13:44 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has joined #joinmarket 13:46 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelay] [cgan/arubi] testing lag... 13:46 < arubi> testing lag... 13:46 < arubi> \o/ 13:47 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] yeah, the relays should be pretty much lag-less 13:49 < arubi> right, ws a problem on my end 13:49 < arubi> was*, should be fixed 13:49 < arubi> can't believe I rebooted.. muh uptime :( 13:51 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] prooves your systems still *can* boot at least :) 13:52 < arubi> yes :) good thing that with luks it's possible to test the decryption password from within the os before rebooting :) 14:18 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@173-9-124-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:28 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:46 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has joined #joinmarket 14:50 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:09 -!- diogorsergio [~diogorser@2.120.26.164] has quit [Quit: diogorsergio] 18:03 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.70.119.51] has joined #joinmarket 20:45 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A187.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A403.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 22:33 < d3spwn> shurly a maker that has been running for some months provides a decent level of privacy?