--- Day changed Wed Jul 11 2018 01:38 -!- undeath [~undeath@unaffiliated/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 02:19 -!- qubenix [~qubenix@185.94.192.43] has joined #joinmarket 03:25 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.9.19.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 04:56 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.9.19.107] has joined #joinmarket 05:55 -!- MaxSan [~user@185.9.19.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4AFFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 07:05 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 07:08 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4AFFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4ADB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 07:39 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 08:28 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29 -!- undeath [~undeath@unaffiliated/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.1] 10:23 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 10:26 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30 < waxwing> sorry very long journey today. back soon. 11:30 < arubi> congrats on the new wide screen waxwing :) 11:31 < waxwing> oh that's gone again, long story. but i have a medium one soon. (also that wasn't new, i was coming back to it. actually had 3 monitors even! 11:31 < waxwing> think i might go to a 4 monitor setup soon :) 11:32 < arubi> oh wow, here I am coding on a T430 laptop screen :) but yea at work I have a 2 monitor setup that I can't do without 11:32 < waxwing> btw on the road i've been trying to read coinshuffle++ in detail. it's really fascinating. but turns out it's very expensive to do polynomial factorization over large degree finite fields, so there's one fly in the ointment. and there are possibly others. 11:34 < arubi> think I should stop reading the coinshuffle thing and move straight to coinshuffle++ ? I wasn't sure if there's continuity about it 11:34 < waxwing> i believe yeah you can skip it, since the second one is a different/better algo. it's a self-contained paper. 11:34 < arubi> ah gtk. will do that then 11:34 < waxwing> but tim told me today that he's actually further tweaked it since. stil, it stands on its own i think. 11:35 < arubi> vacation soon.. I'll have time to get up to speed with everything hopefully :) 14:15 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] about PR159, the restart-coinjoin-when-makers dont respond: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/159 14:16 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] it says 14:16 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] If N makers are chosen and M fail to respond with sig, this alteration to taker code allows restart of entire transaction with that specific subset of makers (N-M) 14:16 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] shouldnt "N" be *all* potential makers, not just the *chosen* ones? 14:17 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] because that chosen-maker-subset is already in there quite long, thats why the minimum_makers config was added like a year back iirc 14:21 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] "chosen-maker-subset is already in there quite long" <-- bad English. I mean, this was already part of the code for quite some time 14:38 < waxwing> catoalex : complete-with-subset and restart-with-subset are two different ideas 14:38 < waxwing> the first one is if they fail to respond in "first round" (i.e. don't provide a valid set of input utxos to form the transaction) 14:39 < waxwing> then you can just form the transaction with what you already have (subject to minimum makers limit) 14:39 < waxwing> the second one is if they don't return the signatures; then you have to try again, the transaction is not valid otherwise; the idea here is to complete with exactly that set of makers who honestly responded first time. 14:40 < waxwing> of course, there are no guarantees they won't switch from honest to malicious, but it seems very sensible to try, rather than just canvas the whole trading pit again (and likely to pick 1 or 2 malicious again) 14:40 < waxwing> or, did i misunderstand you? 14:42 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] no, you did not. It seems i wasnt fully understanding it. Clear now, thanks! 14:44 < waxwing> i added complete-with-subset in response to us experiencing the first type of dos, it was actually pretty sloppy of me not to add the second kind of defense, because it was an obvious and well known thing that we were vulnerable to it, and having read coinshuffle the idea of a "blame protocol" to allow completion/termination with honest peers is well known (to me at least, and i'm sure to others) 14:45 < waxwing> stupid thing is, in more than one place i remember writing "yes coinshuffle needs a complicated blame protocol, but it's much easier in JM because we have a coordinator" ... but didn't bother to actually do it! (completely) 14:45 < waxwing> smart attackers may now do it intermittently/non-deterministically, of course ... 14:48 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] yeah, but even if they do, the system as a whole is still better off than before 14:49 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CatoAlex] having more 'good' makers would help, but there's no satoshis to be earned, maker fees are negligible. Hard to incentivize. Might be fixed by the your other idea though, that maker selection could be non-weighted 14:55 < waxwing> i don't think there's any fixing to be done, it's a market, it can't really be pushed around ... people probably get a big chunk of utility from running a maker so they don't need much financial incentive. if the demand bumped up that might change it. 14:55 < waxwing> i still lean towards making random under a maximum a default, but not because prices are low, just to make swamping the bottom of the orderbook ineffective (or less effective) 17:28 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4ADB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:41 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4AFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:10 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18 -!- qubenix [~qubenix@185.94.192.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13 -!- grubles [~grubles@unaffiliated/grubles] has joined #joinmarket 19:33 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzvocenpwjjvoysi] has joined #joinmarket 20:10 -!- Lairem [~User@unaffiliated/lairem] has joined #joinmarket 20:16 -!- Lairem [~User@unaffiliated/lairem] has left #joinmarket [] 20:18 -!- Lairem [~User@unaffiliated/lairem] has joined #joinmarket 20:20 -!- Lairem [~User@unaffiliated/lairem] has left #joinmarket [] 20:21 -!- Lairem [~User@unaffiliated/lairem] has joined #joinmarket 21:00 -!- qubenix [~qubenix@107.181.164.1] has joined #joinmarket