--- Day changed Thu Jul 19 2018
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05:21 < waxwing> looks like it might be fun for people here: https://twitter.com/nopara73/status/1019867379906564098
05:22 < waxwing> (wasabi wallet mainnet first mix run, starting some time after 1700 UTC, for those who don't want to open the link)
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08:37 < belcher_> im not sure why he doesnt make it that liquidity providers get paid, instead of this setting up a time and place
08:39 < belcher_> maybe he wrote about it on a blog post somewhere that i missed
08:40 < belcher_> but there were many other coinjoin projects back in history that are forgotten now because they never had enough liquidity
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10:30 < waxwing> i think the theory is that if it's easier to use it gets more liquidity that way. i see no problem with that theory, it just depends right. sharedcoin/sharedsend of bc.i didn't die because of lack of liquidity afair, it was because they shut it down.
10:31 < waxwing> what's more difficult is (as we have) when you have a wallet that's specifically set up for this action, instead of having this action integrated into wallets, which is what everyone's always been asking for (again, bc.i .. shame it wasn't good, and then got shut down anyway)
10:32 < waxwing> anyway my description is almost dismissive since obv there's a new thing here with the blinding (both samourai and wasabi seem to be doing it simultaneously)
10:32 < belcher_> bc.i's version didnt have identical output amounts iirc, so liquidity requirements were much lower (because people sending different amounts could coinjoin together anyway)
10:33 < waxwing> yeah that was the first version though wasn't it? but it's an important point to bring up, i agree
10:33 < waxwing> the interesting one is this new whirlpool thing, did you see it?
10:33 < belcher_> samurai's thing? not yet
10:34 < waxwing> i guess what they are doing is having the client's wallet pre-transact (with itself) to create equal sized utxos
10:34 < waxwing> and then using those utxos as inputs for the join
10:34 < waxwing> so they have equal-ins equal-outs
10:34 < waxwing> i'm not sure about to what extent that helps, but it's interesting to see someone looking at it
10:37 < belcher_> and i guess the coinjoin amounts are fixed denominations?
10:38 < waxwing> i asked for docs, they said they'll update the readme soon. right now the readme for whirlpool is just a copy of the zerolink document/description
10:38 < waxwing> i'd guess so
10:38 < waxwing> i'll dig up the link but as you can see it won't show you much, just a picture
10:39 < waxwing> https://twitter.com/waxwing__/status/1019285013186187266
10:42 < belcher_> rereading zerolink again
10:56 < belcher_> fixed denominations sizes migth be a problem, as they reduce the divisiblity of money
10:58 < belcher_> so if you want to pay 1.274372 btc but the denomination are powers of 1, you need to make 7 transactions, which isnt a showstopper just another end of the tradeoff
10:58 < belcher_> powers of 10*
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12:03 < waxwing> here's the test tx they did: https://www.smartbit.com.au/tx/d6e19ab43c886b590709d82fdd363fed401e6b74ec8bb6db45ed1dc52c1cd833
12:03 < waxwing> (sorry wasabi, out of context)
12:04 < waxwing> uh sorry this one https://www.smartbit.com.au/tx/f250e997dc1a2d68861e03689d1709973e1964a62f929ba5727fe8607dafb676
12:06 < arubi> one obfuscated unspent, heh :)
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15:44 < qubenix> hey guys. is there some way to upgrade without connecting to the internet? i thought i could just run the install script on a networked vm and then copy over the dir to a non-networked vm, but it does not work. keeps trying to source from outside jmvenv dir.
15:45 < waxwing> hmm. and i guess on the non-networked machine you're just trying to use the wallet ... not sure.
15:46 < qubenix> no, i use yield gen in non networked vm using some socat magic on qubes.
15:46 < waxwing> some methods of the wallet are "noscan" and don't attempt to access the blockchain, but unfortunately i don't think you can even load without it checking the blockchain interface, but you can set it to electrum-server and i *think* it won't attempt to use it for noscan methods.
15:47 < waxwing> qubenix, oh :)
15:47 < waxwing> so what's the error?
15:48 < waxwing> i'll probably be out of my depth with this one since i don't even know how to install qubes :)
15:50 < qubenix> it should be normal. im using a debian based os in the vm. i just connected the vm to the internet and ran the install script, so i'll let you know what happens.
15:54 < qubenix> ok, works normal now that i connected to internet, ran install script, disconnect networking and restart vm. so install script doesn't install only to jmvenv dir?
15:57 < waxwing> arubi, ping
15:59 < waxwing> so what's the delta here? if you install outside the vm, then copy, it doesn't work, whereas if you install on the vm it does ... i guess might be something to do with paths? but maybe if you said what error message you get it might help figure it out?
15:59 < qubenix> it may have been my error actually. i may have been accidentally sourcing the old jmvenv as it was part of my .bashrc. i just created a new vm, copied over the working dir and it worked there.
15:59 < waxwing> ok cool
16:00 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] i remember reading somewhere that the venv, when installed, remembers some absolute paths. Thats why reloacting to a different vm (with different path) might not work, but if you'd use the same path, it might.
16:02 < qubenix> this sounds likely because i was pretty sure i deactivated the old jmvenv, but not 100%.
16:05 < grubles> couldn't you make a clone of the debian template, run the install.sh in the clone, then create an appvm with the new template
16:05 < grubles> or something like that
16:09 < qubenix> going forward i will do something like that, grubles.
16:14 < grubles> :-)     
16:16 < grubles> that might not be the best way to go about it
16:20 < qubenix> dont need to do anything in a template though, can all be in appvms. just need one internet connected and be sure to use the same path like ~/joinmarket-clientserver/jmvenv, and not ~/QubesIncoming...
16:52 < grubles> hmm yeah you're right
16:52 < grubles> home dirs are persistent with appvms 
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21:13 < arubi> waxwing, qubenix, virtualenv is hard coding the full path in its activate* files, and I'm not sure but it might also matter for libffi (also hard codes the full path in its pkg-config and libtool files).  basically what AlexCato said :)
22:24 < arubi> actually reading venv manual now, there are two flags, --unzip-setuptools and --relocatable that look interesting.  
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22:58 < arubi> tried this ^, unfortunately there are still a bunch of absolute paths hard coded in files