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00:44 < waxwing> yes     
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05:03 < Sentineo> what is the best practice to send funds from e.g. bitcoin-qt with plausible deniability in mind? One would e.g. devide the amount to equal amounts I guess, but how is the fee handled? Should one calculate the fee manualy, or then one devides the outputs evenly the software is smart enough to deduce the fee from all (I doubt it)
05:20 < waxwing> Sentineo, hard to know what you're asking really; what are you trying to plausibly deny? i'm not sure in which scenario dividing into equal amounts would help there? re: fees, i don't understand what you're saying.
05:24 < Sentineo> ah, ok not sure what the right wording is for it then. The question is hypotethycal in nature. Lets say I have 0.9 BTC and I want to send it somewhere. Lets say I want to send 0.6 to myself and 0.3 to the other person. I do not want this to be obvious, so I would split the output to 3, sending 2 outputs to myself (total of 0.6BTC), 1 to the other party. It would be uncertain to someone doing analysis 
05:24 < Sentineo> wether those outputs go to the same wallet, or 2 are mine, or 1 is change, etc.
05:26 < Sentineo> so one could deny posessing the coins once sent from e.g. a known address. Isn't it plausible deniability in this case? 
05:27 < Sentineo> This is the idea behind coinjoin I think, but not sure
05:31 < Sentineo> waxwing: regarding fees, in the above scenario deviding by 3 is easy, we left out fees. Now what I am asking if I was to do it manualy e.g. in bitcoin-qt I would probably have to alter the output amount per tx to be less then 0.3, to count with fees. Bitcoin-qt would not do it for me probably.
05:58 < waxwing> in the simplest case, it doesn't help per se; because, if you re-use the funds you didn't send (i.e. the change) as part of later spending from the same wallet, it still ends up in the same wallet cluster.
06:00 < waxwing> i.e if alice wants to send bob 0.3 btc with 0.9 btc and makes three outputs (B 0.3, A1 0.3, A2 0.3) but later co-spends A1 and A2 with some other utxos from the original wallet, it still gets connected (although perhaps later). it's hard to be definitive but that's the general idea.
06:00 < waxwing> you can make separate wallets, or separate 'pockets' with different branches (same thing for these purposes) .. it can help a bit with isolation. also if you can use coin selection manually you can do similar things.
06:01 < waxwing> but overall if you don't actually "mix" your funds via creating indistinguishable outputs (i.e. coinjoin), or do something even more advanced, the "returns" on such behaviour are rather limited imo.
06:01 < waxwing> Sentineo, ^
06:03 < waxwing> but i don't want to overstate it; wallet clustering analysis is def not perfect, and you could take the opposite view that *much* of it is based on assumptions which simply cannot be perfectly reliable, and therefore it's all snake oil. it's tricky.
06:28 < Sentineo> thanks
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09:55 < deadcyph3r> any .onion forums?
10:02 < waxwing> you can chat here via the .onion on agora IRC, there's a relay bot to this IRC from there
10:03 < waxwing> i think cyberguerrilla/cgan also, but i'm not sure if the bot's workign right now
10:03 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelayBot] [cgan/waxwing] testing
10:03 < waxwing> yeah it's still working there too
10:03 < waxwing> oh wait, what? "agora-irc/CgRelayBot"?
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15:18 < GitHub59> [joinmarket-clientserver] undeath pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fxFqZ
15:18 < GitHub59> joinmarket-clientserver/master a057b87 undeath: add setupall.py --all mode
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15:18 < GitHub8> [joinmarket-clientserver] undeath closed pull request #203: add setupall.py --all mode (master...setupall-all) https://git.io/fx7Vl
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