--- Day changed Fri Jan 04 2019
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01:52 < waxwing> d3spwn, no
01:52 < waxwing> so we shouldn't have put that in "WARNING", sorry
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05:50 < waxwing> belcher, remember me talking about optionality in bisq? just seen this: https://blog.bitmex.com/atomic-swaps-and-distributed-exchanges-the-inadvertent-call-option/
05:58 < nothingmuch> i think they rightfully point out that the deposit is basically the option price
05:59 < nothingmuch> basically implying that for it to not be an option, it basically has to be an offer you can't refuse ;-)
06:01 < waxwing> yes. but i also agree with them that they should make it explicit; users don't understand options, generally, much less are able to figure out a reasonable price for one.
06:02 < nothingmuch> i don't think reasonable prices are workable, given arbitration is a manual process (and so the market maker needs to also price that additional delay in, and it won't realistically scale)
06:03 < nothingmuch> but it's definitely true that having an understanding of that would lead to more correct deposit rates
06:04 < waxwing> nothingmuch, yeah good point about how arbitration screws it up. i see what you mean by "reasonable prices are workable", even if that kinda sounds ridiculous :)
06:04 < waxwing> or are *not* workable
06:09 < waxwing> to take the other side of the argument, it's kinda centralized exchange thinking applied to decentralized. in the old days of localbitcoin, and when we were first figuring out the bitsquare design (i was somehwat involved), it was just taken as something you deal with; you try to keep the delays as short as possible, and accept that there's some risk within that window. the idea that a person's reputation is damaged if they back out was also 
06:09 < waxwing> considered.
06:09 < waxwing> albeit, all those considerations just don't really scale.
06:10 < waxwing> it's funny that we never really took the idea of 'deposit as option price' seriously.
06:11 < waxwing> or .. we did know that people might arb like that, but it was a bit 'meh' considering all the other massive problems.
06:12 < nothingmuch> it might still be possible, just very complicated... with the colored coin stuff, something like killerstorm's prediction markets idea could be implemented to try and get machine readable information to automate settlement
06:13 < nothingmuch> actually... no. because if you choose to exercise the option, you still need the same arbitration model for actually making the payment out of band secure ;_;
06:15 < nothingmuch> it's veering really off topic for here, but i think the most viable solution for this is education, if bisq market makers are hedging with centralized futures/options, then the downside can be mitigated with custodial risk and leverage can further mitigate that
06:16 < belcher> ty for the link waxwing
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12:35 < GitHub123> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/fhOdh
12:35 < GitHub123> joinmarket-clientserver/master 6d0368e AdamISZ: Merge #268: Native segwit support including basic BIP84 wallet....
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12:35 < GitHub176> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ closed pull request #268: Native segwit support including basic BIP84 wallet. (master...full-segwit-support) https://git.io/fhJQT
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12:42 < GitHub191> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 4 new commits to master: https://git.io/fhOFn
12:42 < GitHub191> joinmarket-clientserver/master 3ccd395 qubenix: add help menu to install.sh
12:42 < GitHub191> joinmarket-clientserver/master c8ff323 qubenix: fixup
12:42 < GitHub191> joinmarket-clientserver/master 4abe512 qubenix: fixup: fivepiece suggestions
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12:42 < GitHub155> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ closed pull request #278: add help menu to install.sh (master...install.sh-menu) https://git.io/fhm5l
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12:44 < GitHub164> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ closed pull request #261: build minimal libsodium (master...installsh_minimal_libsodium) https://git.io/fpjPR
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12:44 < GitHub103> [joinmarket-clientserver] AdamISZ pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/fhOFg
12:44 < GitHub103> joinmarket-clientserver/master 8256b27 fivepiece: build minimal libsodium
12:44 < GitHub103> joinmarket-clientserver/master ab969e0 AdamISZ: Merge #261: build minimal libsodium...
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12:45 < waxwing> oh qubenix in future please squash (if it's a small PR like that one particularly).
12:46 < arubi> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/acine4/samourai_wallet_adds_stowaway_transactions_for/  <- on topic
12:47 < arubi> apparently it's a p2ep thing, but cm9kZW8K has some nice comments about it on that thread
12:52 < qubenix> waxwing: sorry. i was planning to do it after i was sure there was no more changes. next time i'll just squash after each commit.
12:53 < waxwing> qubenix, np it was probably my error then :) i didn't pay attention, sorry.
12:54 < undeath> pls don't squash after each commit :)
12:54 < waxwing> right, not during the process
12:54 < qubenix> ok, no squishy commits
12:54 < waxwing> my error was seeing 'approved' and thinking it was finished (i only looked at the content, not the commits)
12:55 < waxwing> another thing about commits is that people tend to make one line comments. more detail would be preferable, please.
12:55 < qubenix> noted
12:59 < waxwing> arubi, yes samourai have been doing a p2ep thing for quite a while apparently, was chatting with the main guy. thanks for the link, i'll have a read.
13:00 < belcher> for a good discussion of how to write commit messages read this https://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/
13:01 < waxwing> yeah. i think i read that one before; the lnd guys have a good code contributions guide that includes what they expect on commit comments. istr it's similar to what that blog post says.
13:01 < waxwing> or maybe they just literally link to it.
13:01 < belcher> that guide is also linked from the bitcoin core contributing guide
13:02 < waxwing> ah, k, maybe i saw it there first, don't remember.
13:09 < waxwing> i also find myself writing longer and longer comment paragraphs :) like ... https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/p2ep/scripts/receive-payjoin.py#L116-L139
13:09 < waxwing> i've tested a from-scratch installation (wiped everything incl. deps) with these new additions, all seemed OK, including Qt.
13:10 < arubi> nice :)
13:12 < waxwing> undeath, i got this on clicking 'resync wallet from blockchain' in gui: https://pastebin.com/guwbPAgd
13:12 < waxwing> curious on the face of it; wallet syncing seems to be working fine generally
13:13 < waxwing> arubi, writing lots of comments is cool, but the dark side of it is: more comments means more stale comments :)
13:14 < arubi> oh yea sure, my previous manager at work was wholly /against/ code comments for this reason :)
13:14 < arubi> I think he was taking it too far though.  it's important to update the comments along with the code
13:15 < waxwing> undeath, point of context: i'd just broadcast a transaction; it was not yet confirmed. i can't reproduce this error now. i wonder if the rpc return value was like None or something.
13:20 < undeath> i guess it may happen for unconfirmed transactions
13:21 < waxwing> can i leave that one with you?
13:22 < undeath> yes, I'll fix it next week
13:22 < waxwing> so separately, i'm thinking about setting up the test cases for payjoin, i like the setup you have in test_coinjoin, i think i'll try to use that approach.
13:25 < undeath> let me know if you run into any trouble
13:28 < waxwing> undeath, i'm confused about 'monkeypatch' package; i understand the idea of monkey patching generally, but what is this? just to provide a convenience function to override methods of existing classes etc.?
13:31 < waxwing> ah i guess this is telling me what i need to know: https://docs.pytest.org/en/latest/monkeypatch.html
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13:52 < undeath> the main thing about the monkeypatch module is that it will also take care of restoring the original behaviour again
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