--- Day changed Fri Jan 18 2019
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06:53 < waxwing> i keep changing my mind as to whether PayJoin has an economic benefit. it's weird; each utxo that is produced must be spent once; but it feels like it should be better to have a wallet that just always has one utxo! but when i analyze it i only see (very meaningful, to be fair) privacy benefit, not economic.
06:53 < waxwing> in particular i notice that you never have to co-spend your utxos in the ideal case (like you receive 10 payments but when you spend it all in bulk, it's 1 utxo not a co-spend)
07:05 < waxwing> belcher, re: your recent research studies, what do you think is the best info available in public on change identification heurististics?
07:06 < waxwing> wow that's a lot of ist :)
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13:56 < takinbo> waxwing: if you receive 10 payments, you now have 10 utxos. if you used payjoin, there is the possibility that you end up with much less than 10 utxos; maybe even 1 utxo in the most optimistic scenario
13:57 < takinbo> that is an economic and privacy benefit as you don't have to pay to merge utxos and you don't reveal much when you need to spend those utxos
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14:28 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelayBot] [cgan/AlexCato] hm... since agora is down, CJs are massively down as well. Also *lots* of joins in #joinmarket-pit by bots, which never announce offers nor ask for them. This is consistent with them not working due to Agora being down. Maybe time to add the fix for that, which is in master, to a new release?
14:28 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/CgRelayBot] [cgan/AlexCato] at least I'd always go with the newest release in a project which i havent encountered before, and not the master branch. I guess others behave the same way.
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15:04 < waxwing> alexcato1 yes, give it a couple of days at least
15:04 < waxwing> although there were a fair few joins going through about 2-3 days ago, so there's that
15:04 < waxwing> takinbo, yes, at the time you spend you have 1 utxo. but in between times, when you receive, you have to use up utxos. you can of course have your senders pay for the spending of utxos, but it's a bit antisocial :)
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16:27 < takinbo> the payjoin is optional, merchant still gets paid but if the party making the payment opts to do a payjoin, then both parties enjoy additional privacy.
16:28 < takinbo> i saw your payjoin demo and from the looks of things, the paying party will accept extra fees up to a limit before accepting to sign the payjoin tx; same way coinjoins on joinmarket works today
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18:44 < GitHub11> [joinmarket-clientserver] jameshilliard opened pull request #301: Reset http connection on EPROTOTYPE errors. (master...eprototype) https://git.io/fh0Md
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