--- Day changed Tue May 07 2019 02:28 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:56 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 03:05 -!- midnightmagic [~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined #joinmarket 03:06 < belcher> wow even fees of 0.003% is too high for some people https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/blkb02/any_fork_of_wasabi_that_doesnt_charge_0003_fees/ 03:06 < belcher> even if it was zero there'd be a cost of miner fees 03:07 < belcher> theres no free lunch in this world 03:07 < gmaxwell> people are just obsessie about fees 03:07 < gmaxwell> obsessive. 03:08 < belcher> havent you heard? bitcoin is zero fees! 03:08 < gmaxwell> it's really hard to make decisions about most things, but a _fee_ is something you can really identify as a better or worse thing. 03:08 < gmaxwell> sadly, it's not like zero fee is a panaca, people assume free=scam too. 03:09 < gmaxwell> panacea e key sticks, I swear. 03:17 < belcher> also seems like the mod of r/wasabiwallet likes stablecoins 04:31 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #joinmarket 04:39 < d3spwn> i doubt most people even understand bitcoin fees, since they always talk about it in terms of fiat 04:41 < belcher> that might be because they want to express it in currency thats more concrete to them? bitcoin is still a foreign currency for many people 07:07 < waxwing> if anyone is of a mind to take a look: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/348 07:07 < waxwing> not sure but i have a feeling i saw a message from ops about 'queries' on the channel yesterday, not sure which of the servers it was. 07:10 < belcher> looks like he doesnt use darkscience 07:11 < waxwing> right. cgan should work but it could be that somehow agora errors block somehow i guess. 07:14 < belcher> idk 07:14 < belcher> i made some coinjoins a few week ago using only cgan and things worked fine.. 07:14 < waxwing> just tried a tx (nodoxpls) it works fine *but* all messages went over darkscience 07:15 < waxwing> so it seems at least plausible there's a cgan problem. will try cgan only. 07:19 < waxwing> interesting it failed and only saw 5 offers. 07:19 < waxwing> oh, that's what i saw yesterday, on cgan: 07:20 < waxwing> "-Global- [Network Notice] Anon_Blackcat01 - Please note we currently have a issue with usermodes preventing query messages, if this impacts you please let a ircop know." 07:20 < waxwing> i'm not sure what query messages are? 07:20 < belcher> im not sure either 07:21 < belcher> "/query. Use the "/query" command to specify that every message you type should be directed to a single user. /query john" so possibly its the PRIVMSG to a single user? 07:22 < belcher> im going to try PMing myself on cgan 07:22 < waxwing> good idea, thx 07:23 < belcher> yep thats the problem 07:23 < belcher> ping 07:23 < belcher> * alexander1 :You are not permitted to send private messages to this user (+c is set) 07:24 < belcher> so i could ask one of their ircops 07:25 < waxwing> yeah if you wouldn't mind, i consider you the IRC guy around here :) 07:25 < waxwing> my primitive understandig is, we have to 'unset the mode 'c'' 07:26 < belcher> that requires everyone to update joinmarket 07:26 < belcher> we can do it if the ircops arent able to help us 07:26 < belcher> but they did say we should contact them 07:29 < waxwing> yeah. i am imagining the case where it might be necessary, but given that the default works (since darkscience does) the situation is not as bad, or urgent, as it might be. 07:29 < waxwing> it's true that a lot of people don't update joinmarket's config file though, even when they update the software. that's a counterpoint. 07:30 < waxwing> we should probably have mentioned that in release notes each time (wipe and recreate your config then add your custom settings). as a habit. 07:33 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 12:42 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #joinmarket 15:11 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4] 15:29 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48 < kristapsk> https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/blkb02/any_fork_of_wasabi_that_doesnt_charge_0003_fees/empz1mx/ 15:49 < kristapsk> I really think this is the biggest issue with JM right now and where some improvements needs to be made 16:10 < waxwing> kristapsk, well that's true, but i think the devil may be in the details. 16:11 < waxwing> first consider that if you need bitcoin core to run it that rules out a lot of people, and also, when you have a server based model it's rather easier to make things easier to use. still that doesn't discount the fact that easier installation and high quality GUI would make it a lot more appealing to people. 16:18 < kristapsk> waxwing, yes, I agree, but there are a lot of things we could improve with joinmarket-qt 16:19 < kristapsk> I personally don't use GUI with JM much, my motivation for all the improvements (pull requests I've made so far) have been with the idea that i more people will use JM as a market takers, I will earn more money as a market maker :) 16:21 < kristapsk> I think we should look at the Wasabi, how they do the things, and they are defintitelty better at the UI/UX than JM right now 16:22 < waxwing> i don't think you'll find many opponents to the idea that it should be better :) 16:26 < kristapsk> btw, I had idea about alterantive blockchain_source, to use Esplora (open source behind Blokstream.info), forcing Tor, and using new Tor identity for each new request 16:27 < kristapsk> that could be way to may be able to use JM as a taker without a full node 16:31 < kristapsk> anyways, my I would love to see one day that anybody could easely just download jonmarket-qt with much dependencies and use it with a one click install 16:34 < kristapsk> ok, I'm off, that Liverpool v Barcelona game was too cool and I'm actually drunk little bit already :) 16:38 < belcher> agreed on the tor electrum server idea 16:38 < belcher> querying a single address per tor circuit, and connect to many different servers, it can still be broken of course but it would be very user friendly (starting up essentially instantly) 16:39 < belcher> theres lots of idea though, ideas arent in shortage :p 16:48 < kristapsk> well, haven't thought about electrum with this, only about esplore, which could work, except tx_broadcast=self, as Esplore doesn't offer any tx broadcast 16:56 < belcher> esplore is an implementation of an electrum server isnt it? 16:57 < belcher> oh no im wrong, it uses rust-electrum on the backend but its a blockchain explorer doh 16:58 < kristapsk> not sure, it's the thing behind Blockstream's block explorer 16:58 < kristapsk> https://blockstream.info/ 16:58 < kristapsk> https://github.com/Blockstream/esplora/blob/master/API.md 16:59 < belcher> you need anything that has an index of address -> transactions, either blockchain explorers or electrum servers, id advocate electrum servers because theres more of them 17:03 < belcher> here we go again https://twitter.com/binance/status/1125908290322350081 7000 btc stolen in one transaction 17:03 < kristapsk> haven't thought about Electrum servers under Tor this way before, maybe it could work too 17:03 < belcher> as always it will be interesting to see if/what privacy tech the hackers use 17:04 < kristapsk> my idea about Esplora was again to provide something privacy preserving enough without having to install and have a full node 17:05 < belcher> esplora needs a full node doesnt it? 17:05 < kristapsk> ehh, I think I'm drunk, my sentes does not make a sence actually, haha 17:05 < belcher> a full node + address index 17:05 < belcher> and txindex 17:06 < kristapsk> well, no, belcher, idea was that you could use blockstream or some other outside source with onion service 17:06 < belcher> ok 17:58 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A9F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:01 -!- side^effects [~al|iss@gateway/tor-sasl/aliss/x-63218493] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A98F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket