--- Day changed Wed Sep 18 2019 02:44 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has joined #joinmarket 02:47 < waxwing> arubi, pinging in case you didn't see it: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/398 02:48 < waxwing> or if anyone else here knows about install on Mac? 02:57 -!- davex__ [~user@45.74.60.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00 -!- davex__ [~user@45.74.60.136] has joined #joinmarket 03:07 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] super busy lately, but i have a Mac around here somewhere and can see if this is reproducable. Should find a few minutes later today 03:09 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] but i've looked into the install script a few weeks ago, any OS that isnt debian should trigger the "coult not determine OS" error, if i recall that correctly 03:14 -!- davex__ [~user@45.74.60.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:16 -!- davex__ [~user@45.74.60.134] has joined #joinmarket 03:40 < belcher> im having trouble doing a coinjoin with my own makers on regtest, the issue seems to be that once makers receive a request they print "[DEBUG] importing 60 addresses with label joinmarket-wallet-38c7b9" which takes a while and causes the taker to print "[INFO] Makers who didnt respond: ['J5DnyavWYeJ5BRPz', 'J52K9x1oD5Py45Mf']" 03:40 < belcher> iv tried deleting the regtest dir and creating it all again, tried increasing maker_timeout_sec and tried reverting to an earlier commit from a month ago (because this worked for me a week or two ago) 03:49 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 03:53 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 04:14 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] MacOS installation issue: he followed the linux guide. The MacOS instructions have no install.sh 04:14 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] just tried those on my Mac, worked perfectly 04:27 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] suggested 2 PRs to slightly adjust documentation to make it more clear which installation guide to use when 04:55 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has joined #joinmarket 05:28 < waxwing> alexcato oh! thanks. 06:25 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:38 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has joined #joinmarket 07:28 -!- mr_burdell [~mr_burdel@unaffiliated/mr-burdell/x-7609603] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29 -!- mr_burdell [~mr_burdel@unaffiliated/mr-burdell/x-7609603] has joined #joinmarket 08:05 -!- MaxSan [~four@185.156.175.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:56 < joinmarketuser> waxwing/belcher curious what do you think of forking electrum and using it for the interface and putting the jm functionality in a library the forked electrum would call many people are already comfortable with electrum interface so an electrum fork with better privacy and joinmarket built in could be a killer client, people would probably recommend it first before the official for the increased privacy and joinmarket abilities. which could 08:56 < joinmarketuser> help to normalize joinmarketing and payjoins 08:56 < joinmarketuser> if you answered last night i got disconnected and missed it 09:01 < fiatjaf> joinmarketuser, he answered 09:01 < fiatjaf> there's a whole history with that but basically yeah 09:11 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.37] has joined #joinmarket 09:13 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:19 < waxwing> joinmarketuser, there's a couple of considerations. first there was already an electrum plugin but electrum at that point weren't interested in supporting it (that may have changed), and it's also difficult because of all our backend messaging infrastructure. 09:19 < waxwing> there's also the privacy question. using electrum means either using electrum servers or hosting your own or eps. 09:20 < waxwing> if you host your own you're using Core anyway, i'm not sure i see the big advantage. if you don't you're badly downgrading your own privacy considering how many electrum servers are run by blockchain analysis, and also that of others who use joinmarket somewhat, at least. 09:20 < waxwing> i've heard actual complaints about what electrum integration we had in the past, about that. 09:20 < waxwing> to be clear the electrum plugin i worked hard on did actually work but nobody was really interested in testing it because it wasn't supported by electrum. 09:21 < waxwing> i do appreciate that a fork is a different idea (although a plugin is probably more logical). i also appreciate that electrum has gui features outside of multisig and hw support so there might be some small market for people to run Core and electrum-forked-for-joinmarket. 09:22 < waxwing> https://github.com/AdamISZ/electrum-joinmarket-plugin/ (it is marked on the readme as defunct, it's seriously out of date. the new arch we have allows one to isolate the messaging side in jmdaemon and have electrum code responsible for all bitcoin work.) 09:22 < waxwing> but that is still a lot of work. 09:26 < waxwing> oh and i forgot to mention an important detail: about 1-2 years ago Electrum removed support for accounts, which they previously had. that made such a plugin much easier. 09:26 < waxwing> (accounts = mixdepths) 10:20 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato1] the best user experience i know of, dealing with sort-of similar problems, is Bisq. One .exe installer (or .deb .rpm .dmg) for everything, including TOR connectivity out of the box and also needs to deal with private/anonymous bitcoin TX. I'm sure it was complicated and a ton of work to get this going, but that would be an awesome tool for JM 10:20 < CgRelayBot> takers 10:45 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 10:49 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:04 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has joined #joinmarket 12:38 < waxwing> yes, everything built into an executable for all platforms would be great, agreed. 12:38 < joinmarketuser> waxwing - a fork of electrum that fixes the privacy issue would be far superior. electrum has a great ui but its privacy issues are terrible. the suggestion i am making is electrum forked for better privacy and for join market - NOT electrum + core which would still have the same adoption problems 12:38 < joinmarketuser> maybe using tor and switching servers for every address lookup or any other light client approach that doesn't tie addresses together 12:39 < joinmarketuser> I feel like an electrum forked for tor with joinmarket included could become the defacto version since privacy is really the primary flaw in the existing one 12:39 < joinmarketuser> also with a fork you could add accounts back 12:39 < waxwing> switching server per address is something, i'm not sure it's enough, it doesn't seem like an ideal solution to the problem. 12:39 < waxwing> client side filtering i guess. i'd certainly like that to be added to JM either way. 12:40 < waxwing> but not sure of status with Core, apparently PRs are not getting merged. 12:40 < waxwing> if it's not in Core then you have a bit of an issue getting requests served. 12:41 < joinmarketuser> is the wasabi thin client sufficiently private? it claims to avoid broadcasting and tying addresses 12:41 < joinmarketuser> not sure what mechanism it uses but i think swiching servers per lookup may be one of them 12:42 < belcher> wasabi uses client side block filtering 12:43 < belcher> a private method of address lookup is a slight blocker for any packaged binary wallet, because its a bit of an unsolved problem... the reason wasabi makes it work is because its filters only include bech32 addresses and because those are so rare the filters are quite small 12:43 < belcher> client side block filters which include all addresses are apparently a few gb in size, so any wallet built from those isnt really very lightweight (although ofc much more lightweight than a full node) 12:44 -!- Zenton [~user@unaffiliated/vicenteh] has joined #joinmarket 12:44 < waxwing> you need to get the blocks served from somewhere is my point about that. 12:50 < kristapsk> belcher, maybe ralted, I noticed today with real mainnet coinjoin that after "Makers who didnt respond" message, when there was less than minimum_makers left, it kinda hanged up at that point (didn't wait for too long, as I had payment window, just restarted sendpayment with bigger -N number) 12:58 < kristapsk> waxwing, yes, I'm also sceptical currently about Neutrino stuff being merged into Core soon, as some developers, like luke-jr, are strongly against it 13:10 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato] about > when there was less than minimum_makers left, it kinda hanged up at that point 13:10 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato] theres a timeout which restarts after 10 min usually 13:25 < kristapsk> AlexCato, yes, I had something like this somewhere back in my mind, just wasn't sure and didn't have time to wait so long 13:31 < CgRelayBot> [cgan/AlexCato] yeah, if it's a sendpayment, i'd never wait for that either. This is more relevant for tumbling 13:50 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #joinmarket 14:11 < undeath> kristapsk: re #395 in what cases would an empty wallet name be needed? 14:11 < kristapsk> undeath, default wallet is sometimes "wallet.dat", sometimes "", from my experience 14:11 < kristapsk> in listwallets output 14:12 < kristapsk> it's actually "wallet.dat" as an actual filename in both cases 14:12 < undeath> can the default wallet be nameless in multiwallet mode? 14:12 < kristapsk> yes 14:12 < undeath> wow, who designed this 14:12 < kristapsk> I have at least one full node acting that way 14:13 < kristapsk> maybe it's related to that it was some old versions before, being upgraded, running for a few years already 14:13 < kristapsk> haven't looked at actual code, why it acts that way 14:14 < undeath> yeah, probably an old oversight that was kept for compatibility 14:15 < undeath> can't we make jm accept an empty string as wallet name? 14:15 < undeath> that seems like the most sensible way to handle it 14:16 < kristapsk> I think that will break old versions of Bitcoin Core (or other RPC-compatible implementations) that don't support multiple wallets 14:17 < undeath> i see you mentioned that in your recent github comment. we may need to add some logic to use None in the case it's not specified 14:18 < kristapsk> I'm not so familiar with that joinmarket.cfg parser, is it even possible, like, for example, differenting between rpc_wallet_file= and rpc_wallet_file="" 14:18 < undeath> eh, that's horrible to handle since jm's default is an empty string so it would break backwards compatibility 14:18 < undeath> yeah, no 14:19 < undeath> just had a look at the code 14:20 < kristapsk> some ugly hack might be added, like treating '""' as a special string, which would work unless somebody actually names his wallet file '""', but I don't think that's good solution either 14:22 < undeath> it might be a solution to introduce a new config key that can default to None and if it's not present use 'rpc_wallet_file' with "" = None 14:22 < undeath> that's not pretty but ultimately it's an error in the config file format 14:23 < takinbo> how about a new option? before renaming the wallet i was using, i remember adding a patch that when set would treat `rpc_wallet_file` as blank if the setting was enabled or as None if it was false or undefined. 14:24 < takinbo> undeath: just realised you are suggesting the same thing. 14:24 < undeath> pretty much boils down to the same thing i think 14:27 < kristapsk> I already added that log message, guess I will just re-test and then push it to github, but we can discuss this more (I'm still not conviced myself what is the right thing to do here) 14:53 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.37] has joined #joinmarket 14:54 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@107.181.189.37] has quit [Changing host] 14:54 -!- StopAndDecrypt [~StopAndDe@unaffiliated/stopanddecrypt] has joined #joinmarket 15:26 -!- joinmarketuser1 [~joinmarke@193.37.252.139] has joined #joinmarket 15:29 -!- joinmarketuser [~joinmarke@193.37.252.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:13 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.5] 16:26 -!- joinmarketuser2 [~joinmarke@193.37.252.139] has joined #joinmarket 16:29 -!- joinmarketuser1 [~joinmarke@193.37.252.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4AA92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p5DE4AA92.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p5DE4A14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 17:59 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p5DE4A14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 19:22 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50 -!- takamatsu [~takamatsu@unaffiliated/takamatsu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:55 < Sentineo> oh I remember that "" thing, at some point 0.17 started returning wallet.dat instead of "". Depends which wallet was the first in your config.