--- Day changed Sat Nov 09 2019 00:21 -!- Suzanne26Carroll [~Suzanne26@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has joined #joinmarket 02:53 -!- openoms_ [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 02:57 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: nanotube 03:42 -!- Netsplit over, joins: nanotube 03:58 -!- openoms_ [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:01 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 04:04 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 04:16 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:17 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 04:43 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:44 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 04:54 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:54 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:02 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:09 -!- openoms_ [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 05:12 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:24 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:41 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #joinmarket 05:46 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #joinmarket 06:33 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #joinmarket 06:36 -!- openoms_ [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35 -!- zndtoshi [4f707618@79.112.118.24] has joined #joinmarket 07:35 < zndtoshi> hello. I'd like to run the yiledg. Do you recommend to modify the fee or leave the default as it is 08:27 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38 < belcher> zndtoshi modify 08:38 < belcher> think of yourself as a shopkeeper who sells coinjoins, what price you're offering is an important number 08:40 < zndtoshi> but how do I know what the other shopkeepers offer? 08:43 < belcher> either run the ob-watcher.py script or go to https://joinmarket.me/ob/ 08:43 < belcher> the url is just an instance of the ob-watcher script exposed to everyone 08:49 < zndtoshi> am I interpreting this correctly? the default cfg shows cjfee_r = '0.0002' # 0.02% fee while the lowest fee on obwatcher is 0.000179% so effectively about 10% of default fee? 08:50 < zndtoshi> sorry 1% of default fee? 08:50 < belcher> looks like it 08:51 < zndtoshi> wow.. so there's too much liquidity and too little demand? 08:52 < belcher> on the ob-watcher script you can change the unit to basis point or part-per-million if % is too big of a unit 08:53 < belcher> yeah you could say that, although remember that the intrinsic value of coinjoin liquidity isnt very high anyway 08:53 < belcher> many coins are either sitting in cold storage or on a yield generator, so theres no reason for the price to be super high 08:53 < zndtoshi> I saw that. .but please explain why are people undercutting the market? 1% from default seems so low. Or do they value more to get in front on getting their stash coinjoined as well 08:54 -!- booleanalgebra [~boolean.a@96.72.197.27] has joined #joinmarket 08:54 < booleanalgebra> Is this where the requests are made? 08:54 -!- nothanksdude [6048c51b@96.72.197.27] has joined #joinmarket 08:55 < belcher> zndtoshi supply and demand i guess, perhaps they believe they'll get more surplus if they reduce their price 08:55 < belcher> booleanalgebra which requests? 08:56 < booleanalgebra> I'm considering being a yield-generator 08:56 < booleanalgebra> `The bot connects to the JoinMarket trading pit on an IRC channel, announces its offers and waits` 08:56 < booleanalgebra> So I wanted to get a sense of the bots activity 08:56 < booleanalgebra> To see if it's worth it or not, financially 08:56 < booleanalgebra> Is this the channel that the bots do their magic in? 08:56 -!- nothanksdude [6048c51b@96.72.197.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57 -!- MaxSan [~four@195.206.105.227] has joined #joinmarket 08:57 < belcher> no the bots meet on other irc networks, not on freenode 08:57 < belcher> you can find those networks in the default configuration file called joinmarket.cfg 08:58 < booleanalgebra> Is it worth setting up an EC2 to run? 09:00 < belcher> EC2 ? 09:01 < booleanalgebra> AWS 09:01 < belcher> ah 09:02 < belcher> i dont know, i suspect many people run yieldgens on raspberry pis or old computers in their own homes, because the bots contain your private keys and a cloud service might not be trustworthy in protecting them 09:03 < booleanalgebra> Running a full node on a Pi seems.. suboptimal, no? 09:04 < booleanalgebra> And try as I might, I can't find any stats on potential earnings 09:06 < belcher> lots of people run nodes on a pi 09:06 < belcher> you can do the trick where you sync the node quickly on a normal computer and then copy over the data directory to the pi, so it only needs to keep up with new blocks 09:08 < booleanalgebra> True 09:08 < belcher> as for earning stats, people are secretive i guess and nobody has really published what they earn 09:09 < booleanalgebra> Is there ANY sense? I mean is it 1% per year? 10%? 100%? 09:09 < belcher> certainly not 10% or 100% per year 09:10 < belcher> less than 1% seems realistic, also it depends on the amount you have 09:10 < zndtoshi> if it's better than ECB negative 0.5%.. I'll take it! :)) 09:10 < zndtoshi> banks should really get into the coinjoining business 09:11 < belcher> hehe 09:11 < booleanalgebra> That's the other thing I keep reading - depends on how much you have 09:11 < booleanalgebra> So if I stake 10BTC, will I earn 10%? But if I stake 1BTC, will I earn 0.5%? 09:11 < booleanalgebra> And so on 09:11 < booleanalgebra> I guess I just want to figure out some approximation 09:11 < belcher> another thing to note is if people are earning well then they'll keep quiet from it 09:11 < belcher> nobody likes competition 09:14 < booleanalgebra> Also true 09:14 < booleanalgebra> But you know.. common good 09:14 < booleanalgebra> The more YG's we have, the better we all are 09:15 < zndtoshi> if I started the yieldg process.. how do I stop it? ctrl+c? 09:30 < takinbo> zndtoshi: yes 09:32 < booleanalgebra> So the steps are (1) setup a full node, ideally bootstrapped with a torrented blockchain, (2) setup joinmarket (3) setup yieldg? 09:34 < takinbo> booleanalgebra: in short, although it's hard to tell if a torrented blockchain really makes for quick bootstrapping. might be better off simply syncing directly from the network. in most cases it is faster as it still has to verify any block files downloaded using bittorrent. 09:36 < booleanalgebra> Won't the torrented one save me a ton of download time? 09:36 < booleanalgebra> I assume I don't need txindex flags set for YG? 09:36 < takinbo> not necessarily and yes you don't need txindex for your yg. 09:37 < booleanalgebra> So then that'll speed it up considerably, no? 09:38 < takinbo> the latest bitcoin core versions uses a headers first synchronization method which may be faster overall in terms of synchronization time 09:38 < takinbo> turning off txindex will speed up sync time. 09:38 < booleanalgebra> Gotcha 09:38 < booleanalgebra> So I can do it on my computer 09:39 < booleanalgebra> Then copy the data folders over to my Pi? 09:39 < takinbo> also if you have a trusted node already setup, using the `-assumevalid` option also speeds up sync time. 09:39 < booleanalgebra> And it'll be good to go as is? 09:39 < takinbo> yes it's best to sync with your computer and then copy the data files: blocks and chainstate folders to the raspberry pi or other low powered computer. 09:40 < takinbo> booleanalgebra: correct. assumevalid skips signature validation for individual transactions in a block speeding up sync time significantly. 09:41 < booleanalgebra> Thanks 09:42 < booleanalgebra> Can I download via a Windows Bitcoin Core? 09:42 < takinbo> yes 09:42 < booleanalgebra> And have the blocks and chainstate be valid for a Ubuntu? 09:42 < takinbo> yes. 09:50 < booleanalgebra> So the flags I want are :prune=550 09:50 < booleanalgebra> That's it, right? 09:52 < takinbo> you can do that as long as you're using new wallets for your yg 09:53 < takinbo> pruned nodes don't have the archival data to restore transactions in previously created yg wallets 09:57 < booleanalgebra> The long march begins 09:57 < booleanalgebra> So once I'm synced, I should THEN send BTC to my full node for my YG? 09:57 < booleanalgebra> 9 weeks estimated time left? 09:57 < takinbo> yes. 09:58 < takinbo> 9 wks? how so? 09:58 < booleanalgebra> That's what it's saying 10:00 < takinbo> ok, it might end up being faster depending on your connection and processing power. are you using assumevalid? 10:01 < booleanalgebra> I am not, but I guess I can? 10:01 < takinbo> do you have a full node elsewhere? 10:01 < booleanalgebra> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.18.1/share/examples/bitcoin.conf 10:01 < booleanalgebra> I don't see it in here 10:02 < takinbo> it's not meant to be used as a persistent option but you will find it when you run bitcoind -help 10:02 < booleanalgebra> So I can (for now) set: assumevalid=1 in my bitcoin.conf? 10:03 < belcher> heres some docs on transfering the data directory: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory#Transferability 10:03 < belcher> i think assumevalid accepts a block hash not a number 10:03 < belcher> but by default its set to some relatively-recent block anyway 10:04 < belcher> you can increase -dbcache too, that helps the speedup 10:05 < booleanalgebra> There's a default: consensus.defaultAssumeValid = uint256S("0x0000000000000000005214481d2d96f898e3d5416e43359c145944a909d242e0"); //506067 10:06 < booleanalgebra> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/11adab39e6019935aa3abe1d8b3cb64cfc1472ce/src/chainparams.cpp#L108 10:06 -!- MaxSan [~four@195.206.105.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:07 < takinbo> booleanalgebra: correct. if you don't have a full node you trust with which you can get the latest blockhash, you shouldn't specify assumevalid. a value of 0 will even be slower than leaving it at the default. 10:07 < booleanalgebra> But - because of the magic of merkle trees, I can assumevalid up to say.. 600000 10:07 < booleanalgebra> Then everything on top of that can't have been tampered with 10:08 < booleanalgebra> And therefore, everything before that, can't have been tampered with 10:08 < booleanalgebra> Isn't that right? 10:08 < takinbo> that's the assumption 10:09 < booleanalgebra> And as future blocks continue to get built, and I'm NOT assuming validity, it'll continue to confirm 10:09 < booleanalgebra> Seems to be going WAY faster now 10:09 < takinbo> you're basically telling your full node to reduce the security of validating everything to just validating block headers and not the individual scripts for the transactions in those blocks. 10:10 < takinbo> booleanalgebra: yes. anything after that is fully validated. 10:12 < booleanalgebra> Down to 17 weeks 10:13 < booleanalgebra> Down from 52 10:14 < belcher> dont watch it, it will take a few hours at least 10:14 < booleanalgebra> Any way for me to verify that the assumevalid is being respected? 10:14 < belcher> look again in ~12 hours and see how much it did 10:14 < booleanalgebra> In settings, I only see -prune=550 10:15 < takinbo> are you using that from the command line or bitcoin.conf? 10:16 < booleanalgebra> bitcoin.conf 10:16 < booleanalgebra> I'm using the GUI 10:16 < booleanalgebra> For ease 10:17 < takinbo> ok. I do believe it should be without the hyphen if it is set in the bitcoin.conf file. 10:20 < booleanalgebra> In my bitcoin.conf, I have: 10:20 < booleanalgebra> prune=550 10:20 < booleanalgebra> assumevalid=600000 10:20 < booleanalgebra> No - 10:20 < takinbo> the assumevalid parameter is invalid it needs to be a blockhash. other than that it looks okay. 10:21 < takinbo> i meant the assumvalid value 10:22 < booleanalgebra> Gotcha 10:22 < takinbo> it wouldn't cause any harm since there's no block with that hash but i'm concerned that it might make validation even slower 10:22 < takinbo> so best to not specify it at all. 10:24 < booleanalgebra> assumevalid=00000000000000000007316856900e76b4f7a9139cfbfba89842c8d196cd5f91 10:24 < booleanalgebra> Something like that? 10:24 < takinbo> yes 10:26 < booleanalgebra> https://imgur.com/a/YYKnmfp 10:26 < booleanalgebra> Still see this 10:27 < takinbo> it's okay 10:28 < booleanalgebra> So how do I know it's working? 10:29 < takinbo> you will find a note about it in the logs 10:29 < booleanalgebra> I know this goes against the ethos, but if I disable incoming connections, that may speed it up a bit as well? 10:30 < takinbo> no. it doesn't start accepting incoming connections until you are fully synced 10:30 -!- MaxSan [~four@195.206.105.227] has joined #joinmarket 10:30 < booleanalgebra> Debug.log doesn't have anything about assuming valid. Just a lot of: 2019-11-09T18:30:31Z UpdateTip: new best=00000000dee79884453e0e41b11f77cb898f5e60f067988e43b944fb01e89605 height=4804 version=0x00000001 log2_work=44.230343 tx=4867 date='2009-02-19T00:21:59Z' progress=0.000010 cache=1.1MiB(4853txo) 10:33 < booleanalgebra> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/67669/1151 - looks like assumevalid doesn't even get triggered by default? 10:35 < takinbo> if you have a chance to look at the earlier entries, possibly the entries just after bitcoind starts running, you should find it - if it's enabled. 10:35 < booleanalgebra> I'll check in a bit. Thanks kindly @takinbo 10:36 < booleanalgebra> I still can't believe Slack is a real company. It's basically nicer IRC 10:45 < booleanalgebra> Can I use something like Electrum for JM instead? 10:50 -!- booleanalgebra [~boolean.a@96.72.197.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:01 -!- viasil [~viasil@95.174.67.204] has joined #joinmarket 11:16 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] no, not any more. Must be bitcoin core right now. 11:16 < belcher> especially not for yield generator 11:17 < belcher> note to self: yield generator must never work with electrum or another blockchain interface, because many yieldgen operators only care about money not privacy so we as devs basically have to force them to use core 11:18 < belcher> anyway theres a lot of benefits: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_Your_Business_Should_Use_a_Full_Node_to_Accept_Bitcoin 11:18 < belcher> e.g. uptime, do you want your yieldgenerator to stop working every time some electrum servers lag a bit? 11:21 < AgoraRelay> [agora-irc/AlexCato] if anyone has a Casa Node and can answer whether it can be used as full node for joinmarket: https://old.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/dt70f8/i_have_a_casa_node_am_i_able_to_use_joinmarket/ 12:31 -!- zndtoshi [4f707618@79.112.118.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40 -!- reallll [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 12:43 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46 -!- reallll is now known as belcher 13:06 -!- MaxSan [~four@195.206.105.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:07 -!- MaxSan [~four@195.206.105.227] has joined #joinmarket 13:44 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #joinmarket 17:34 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p54866614.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:35 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p54866614.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46 -!- azizLIGHT [~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:47 -!- CgRelayBot [~CgRelayBo@p54866C9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 17:51 -!- AgoraRelay [~jmrelayfn@p54866C9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 20:14 -!- openoms [~quassel@cpc115066-stok20-2-0-cust313.1-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]