--- Log opened Sat Mar 28 00:00:35 2020 00:54 -!- jungly [~jungly@host73-184-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 03:00 -!- slivera_ [~slivera@217.138.204.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00 -!- slivera_ [~slivera@217.138.204.74] has joined #joinmarket 03:24 -!- jungly [~jungly@host73-184-dynamic.250-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48 < k3tan> coconutanna-: i got ssh -X working to connect through to my joinmarket-qt with linux. i needed to install pyside2-tools and the connection works. do you know anything about how to do it with mac? 03:59 -!- jungly [~jungly@host168-187-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 04:00 -!- jungly [~jungly@host168-187-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01 -!- jungly [~jungly@host168-187-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 04:06 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 04:07 -!- jungly [~jungly@host168-187-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14 -!- Maybell57Price [~Maybell57@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #joinmarket 04:17 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined #joinmarket 05:22 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 05:28 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2981:1683:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6] 05:39 -!- jonatack [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:51 -!- slivera_ [~slivera@217.138.204.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59 -!- fiatjaf [~fiatjaf@2804:7f2:2a81:cff9:ea40:f2ff:fe85:d2dc] has joined #joinmarket 06:00 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 06:05 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.174.214] has joined #joinmarket 06:06 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 06:08 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 06:17 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26 -!- swifty [ae77730d@CPEa84e3fc57cd3-CMa84e3fc57cd0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #joinmarket 06:26 < swifty> hello 06:27 < swifty> i'm trying to run joinmarket-qt but I get this error in the console 06:27 < swifty> is this a bug with the program or a problem with my setup? 06:35 < waxwing> swifty, which error? 06:36 < waxwing> an error on startup is normal. are you following this?https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/docs/JOINMARKET-QT-GUIDE.md 06:37 < waxwing> this is certainly not normal: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/548 .. never seen that. 06:40 < swifty> nvm it turned out to be a problem with mobaxterm 06:40 < swifty> I commented the reason in the issue 06:41 < waxwing> got it. thanks. there hasn't been much testing on the WSL Ubuntu setup so I'm not surprised there are gotchas here and there. 06:42 < waxwing> oh that's unfortunate: guybrush.hackint.org J5xxxxxx *** Message to J58yyyy throttled due to flooding 06:43 < waxwing> looks like our message throttler is not quite slow enough for hackint maybe? anyone else seen that? 07:18 < swifty> I've had to restart transactions multiple times because "makers don't respond", is that normal? 07:31 < swifty> shit I think I used up all my commitments, what do I do now 07:44 < waxwing> it's not normal no, for more commitments you can either see the docs on 'sourcing external commitments' or do a self transfer or perhaps just wait on this. something must be wrong. usually the system will gracefully handle a few makers not responding and complete the join with fewer participants. 07:44 < coconutanna-> k3tan: last i checked there was something called X11.app for the mac. starting ssh from an xterm should work but i really don't know. 07:44 < waxwing> i'd really appreciate it if someone could confirm what i saw on throttling. could people take a look at their logs? 07:46 < waxwing> if that is a widespread effect it could cause failures because makers aren't able to communicate. i see it more than once in my log from today. 07:46 < coconutanna-> waxwing: i see about 10 such messages per day 07:46 -!- coconutanna- is now known as coconutanna 07:46 < waxwing> coconutanna, ok thanks. since when? always on hackint? 07:46 < waxwing> i guess we added that about ... 3-4 weeks ago i want to say? 07:47 < swifty> so if I transfer my btc from the original joinwallet to another one, it'll count as 0 retries again? 07:47 < waxwing> i've only been running very occasionally recently, so don't have as good info 07:48 < undeath> waxwing: seeing the same throttling error for hackint 07:48 < waxwing> swifty, yes but you can just transfer to another address in the same wallet, easier and doesn't have any negative privacy implications. 07:48 < waxwing> well did i miss something or isn't that throttling message a pretty huge problem? it's going to interrupt a lot of joins 07:48 < waxwing> swifty, comment out hackint in your joinmarket.cfg -- have it so only darkscience irc is configured 07:49 < coconutanna> waxwing: always on hackint, since the day i enabled the server 07:50 < waxwing> hmm. so the interesting question perhaps is, is it even possible to do a join with default settings on hackint only. if people have both (the default) then it may be a crapshoot, if you happen to pick 80% of your makers on there and they all get blocked, it might fail. 07:50 < undeath> yeah, well, jm automatically uses DS after HI fails with the flooding error 07:51 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 07:51 < waxwing> undeath, well it's not so simple. if you as Taker consider the connectoin to HI open, and the conversation has started there, you will keep sending there. 07:51 < waxwing> and vice versa. an interesting detail is that the two sides of the conversation can be happening on different servers. 07:51 < waxwing> but the conversation can get blocked if say the maker is trying to send on hackint, and failing, the taker will just wait and time out and count as 'maker not responded'. 07:52 < undeath> ah, I see 07:52 < waxwing> although it was a long time ago i wrote this code so i'm vaguely aware of the details :) alexcato helped me a lot to test it and find the fiddly details, although he probably has as much difficulty remembering them as i do :) 07:53 -!- Guest34586 [~britoair@90.162.99.55] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in] 07:53 < swifty> yeah it looks like I used up all my commitments, probably because I kept on getting insufficient funds messages 07:53 < waxwing> i mean afair the main point is a connection drop will be responded with a dynamic switch of servers, if possible. 07:53 < swifty> I only realized later that I could set the amount to 0 and have it auto-calculate 07:54 < waxwing> ah! yes that's a corner case that's quite nasty. 07:54 < waxwing> if you have insufficient funds outright (like by a large margin) you won't use up a commitment, it will just stop before sending the commitment. 07:54 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Client Quit] 07:55 < swifty> I use wallet-tool to xfer funds right? is there documentation on that? 07:55 -!- rdymac_ [~britoair@90.162.99.55] has joined #joinmarket 07:55 < waxwing> but the problem with coinjoin is you don't know the exact amount until you build the transaction, so on the edge, you're going to have this error - you send the commitment to request maker utxos, then they give them to you, then you realise your funds don't cover the tx fee. but it's too late, the commitment is broadcast. 07:55 < waxwing> swifty, to transfer funds without coinjoin you use number of makers 0. 07:55 < swifty> I see, that'd be a lot easier 07:55 < waxwing> it's definitely in the USAGE.md usage guide, it might not be in the joinmarket-qt guide, although it should be. 07:56 < waxwing> also please note the tooltips on each of the options in the single join tab. 07:56 < waxwing> hover mouse over each setting for details. 07:56 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 07:56 < swifty> the tooltips don't work on ubuntu WSL 07:56 < swifty> so I found an old repo that had them 07:56 < swifty> should I send to the same mixdepth or a different one? 07:57 < waxwing> in this specific case, sending to the same mixdepth is fine. 07:57 < waxwing> specifically because you're doing a sweep so there's no change. 07:57 < waxwing> it's just like a 1-1 movement; the old address will never get reused. 07:57 < swifty> thanks a lot! 07:57 < waxwing> (or rather, old address*es*) 07:58 < waxwing> you will co-spend those existing addresses, but that's within the model. the point is that a sweep empties a mixdepth and effectively creates a "cutoff" so that any future usage of that mixdepth is separate. 07:59 < waxwing> so about those throttling messages, i'm still worried about it, even if it doesn't have anything to do with swifty 's case 07:59 < waxwing> i suppose if it was already causing big problems we'd have heard about it. but it might be creating a degradation without anyone noticing that much, maybe. 08:00 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Client Quit] 08:05 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 08:06 < waxwing> it might be that only pubmsgs are being throttled? i don't know but maybe we could get a test done on a #joinmarket-pit-test there. 08:15 < coconutanna> maybe we should just ask a hackint admin? 08:17 < waxwing> yeah that could definitely help 08:20 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 08:59 < swifty> INFO:Taker is not continuing, phase 2 abandoned. 08:59 < swifty> does this have to do with the irc server I commented out? 09:01 < kristapsk_> waxwing, looked at logs since beginning of January, all "throttled due to flooding" messages I have is either from hackint or agora 09:01 -!- kristapsk_ is now known as kristapsk 09:02 < kristapsk> but I'm pretty sure we did some hackint-only tests when it was proposed, although I'm not 100% sure 09:13 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18 < DSRelBot> [DS/AlexCato] when we did the hackint tests, there probably were 2-3 makers at the time. Maybe only now, with many more makers, the flooding protection kicks in 09:18 < waxwing> swifty, that message usually means that you did not find what you were looking for in the offers. 09:19 < waxwing> e.g. not enough makers for your amount range. (although i'd have to check the exact list of things that can cause it) 09:19 < waxwing> please note an extremely common problem: people try to test joinmarket with trivial amounts, and it doesn't work. for several reasons, amounts less than several hundred thousand sats are not practical on this system. 09:20 < swifty> it's around .03 btc 09:20 < waxwing> then it's not that, that's fine. 09:20 < swifty> maybe it's because the app ignored a lot of makers? 09:20 < waxwing> is there anything else in the bottom panel of that tab that might indicate a problem, before that? 09:20 < swifty> nope, it just shows "commitment retrieval ok" 09:21 < waxwing> did you change the settings you got suggested for fee maximums? did you change how many makers were requested? 09:21 < waxwing> did you comment out the entirety of the section for "hackint" in ~/.joinmarket/joinmarket.cfg? 09:21 < swifty> txfee=11 realcjfee=55 09:21 < swifty> tx_fees is 3 09:22 < waxwing> those are very low numbers. how many makers did you request? 09:22 < swifty> 3 09:22 < swifty> yeah i was wondering why my supposed max was a couple thousand satoshis but then they're charging me very little 09:22 < waxwing> hmm sorry it's just too hard having to guess without any direct info. 09:23 < waxwing> very small maker fees are fairly normal, although usually it's at least in the hundreds and sometimes thousands (esp if larger size join) 09:23 < swifty> # If makers do not respond while creating a coinjoin transaction, 09:23 < swifty> could this be the cause? 09:23 < waxwing> 3 is a very small number. i'm still ruminating on what that might cause 09:24 < waxwing> there is a minimum_makers setting that's set to 2 in the config. i suggest trying with at least 5 and ideally more. it will fall back to a smaller number if necessary. 09:24 < swifty> it's set to 4 right now 09:24 < waxwing> what is? minimum_makers? 09:25 < swifty> yes 09:25 < waxwing> oh. maybe we changed that default. if so, you're going to have to either change that, or go back to a default number of makers (9 iirc, you could try say 7) 09:25 < swifty> does that change the number of counterparties I should set? 09:26 < waxwing> i would change minimum_makers to 2. and set at least 5 as your chosen number of counterparties. 09:26 < swifty> I'll try it after my transaction reaches 5 confirmations 09:26 < swifty> I exceeded the number of commitments again 09:26 < swifty> thanks 09:26 < waxwing> there is always a sort of natural loss rate in this, it's hard to put figures but i'd say at least 50% of the time you'll get less than the full number you requested. 09:26 < DSRelBot> [DS/AlexCato] If you ask for 3 counterparties, but minimum_makers is set to 4, thats an impossible set of constraints --> it will cancel any coinjoins (because you say: "join with 3 counterparties" but the config says: "accept no less than 4!") 09:27 < swifty> it is the price of privacy 09:27 < swifty> yeah that's what i was thinging 09:27 < swifty> thinking* 09:27 < waxwing> yes sorry i thought that was clear from what i said, i should have been more explicit 09:28 < waxwing> delving into these complicated set of config vars is of course a bit of a pain, but with defaults they don't usually impact the user. 09:29 < swifty> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/docs/JOINMARKET-QT-GUIDE.md 09:29 < swifty> the guide recommends a number between 3 and 8 09:29 < swifty> but the program autofills 9 09:29 < swifty> I assume something has changed 09:29 < waxwing> yes that is out of date. when i wrote that we had min makers set at 2. 09:30 < waxwing> i'll note it in an issue, thanks 09:31 < waxwing> to be clear, in case it isn't, 3 is still entirely possible if that's what you want to do, just set min_makers to 2 09:31 < swifty> nah I just based it off the guide 09:31 < waxwing> i mean you can even set it to 1 if you actually think a 2 party coinjoin is valuable. 09:31 < swifty> I'll try 5 09:32 < waxwing> if you try 5 set min makers to 2, not 4. having 2 counterparties not finish is only *somewhat* unlikely, it can definitely happen. 09:33 < swifty> got it 09:38 < kristapsk> AlexCato, yes, good point 09:59 < waxwing> belcher_, possible stumbling block (haven't looked into it myself yet): https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/544#issuecomment-605488296 09:59 < waxwing> maybe it needs to be FidelityBondMixin.BIP32_TIMELOCK_ID etc etc? not defined in BaseWallet I think? 10:02 < swifty> alright cool waxwing, it worked like a cham 10:02 < swifty> charm* 10:02 < swifty> thanks a lot 10:03 < waxwing> swifty, sorry about the hassle ... the first one (trying to spend all without knowing about sweep setting 0) was common early on, but we mostly managed to communicate it. 10:03 < waxwing> the second one about using N=3 is definitely a failure of keeping docs updated. 10:04 < swifty> that's fine, i mean you're doing it for free 10:04 < swifty> wish i was good as you at cs/blockchain 10:05 < swifty> out of curiosity how did you learn all of this 10:05 < swifty> self-taught or uni? 10:48 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 10:53 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06 -!- swifty [ae77730d@CPEa84e3fc57cd3-CMa84e3fc57cd0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06 < belcher_> ty waxwing 12:49 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 12:53 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 13:04 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 13:10 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has joined #joinmarket 13:11 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:12 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has joined #joinmarket 14:26 -!- slivera [~slivera@217.138.204.68] has joined #joinmarket 14:40 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:40 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #joinmarket 14:44 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45 -!- achow101 [~achow101@unaffiliated/achow101] has joined #joinmarket 16:22 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 16:26 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 16:43 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:59 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 17:20 -!- TracaChang [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 17:20 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20 -!- TracaChang [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has joined #joinmarket 17:31 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.170.87.17] has joined #joinmarket 17:35 -!- jonatack [~jon@37.172.174.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:51 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p548662A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p548662A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:01 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1] 18:04 -!- Traca [~Traca@gateway/tor-sasl/traca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p54866FCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:07 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p54866FCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:40 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 18:44 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@37.170.87.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52 -!- jonatack_ [~jon@2a01:e0a:53c:a200:bb54:3be5:c3d0:9ce5] has joined #joinmarket 20:08 -!- MemeFarmer [sid414248@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pycqnmlajconxisz] has joined #joinmarket 20:39 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has joined #joinmarket 20:43 -!- jungly [~jungly@87.13.179.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:13 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has joined #joinmarket --- Log closed Sun Mar 29 00:00:36 2020