--- Log opened Sat Apr 25 00:00:05 2020
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05:04 < waxwing> belcher_, some nice stuff on payjoin on the podcast. re: the economics of it, it's always struck me as very tricky to assess. large consolidations may be technically cheaper, but as i think you observed in the convo, they are kinda ruinous for privacy.
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05:07 < waxwing> also in future i think the plan is that merchants will batch in other payments to the payjoins, making it even more complicated.
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06:53 < waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/557#issuecomment-619383035
06:53 < waxwing> highlighting ^ in case other devs (or anyone) have comment.
07:04 < undeath> bustapay is pure payjoin with no relevance to cj tumbling, right?
07:06 < undeath> which means makers don't need it at all. and those are most likely to run on old LTS linux distributions that don't have a recent enough python version to support #536
07:07 < waxwing> well i mean maybe, yeah.
07:07 < waxwing> is it just debian stable <insert version> though?
07:08 < undeath> maybe some old ubuntu lts as well
07:08 < waxwing> speaking of which did you see someone saying they had a problem with the new LTS?
07:08 < waxwing> 20
07:08 < undeath> oh yeah
07:09 < undeath> I have not checked ubuntu's repos but I assume they moved all python3-* packages to python-* and removed py2 entirely
07:09 < undeath> so install.sh would need to be adapted for that
07:10 < waxwing> right makes sense
07:11 < waxwing> so "stretch" is the "oldstable" distribution and only has 3.5 right
07:11 < undeath> exactly
07:12 < waxwing> and you can't install 3.6+ there if you want to?
07:12 < undeath> oof, there might be some third-party debian repo
07:14 < undeath> there is this for example: https://github.com/chriskuehl/python3.6-debian-stretch
07:14 < undeath> but I wouldn't be comfortable telling people to install packages from some untrusted third party
07:15 < waxwing> indeed, i wouldn't want to get involved with that if it were me.
07:18 < undeath> besides that, people could manually build python3.6 or newer. but that's a bit of hassle ofc
07:18 < waxwing> so py3.6 has been out for 4 years it seems, and EOL of 3.5 is Sept this year
07:18 < undeath> yeah, it's pretty old already
07:18 < waxwing> according to the table at https://www.python.org/downloads/
07:19 < undeath> debian oldstable is a pain
07:19 < waxwing> ok given that EOL i feel like this is less of a demand. i say we just go ahead.
07:19 < waxwing> like i said in the comment, i'm not inclined to try to keep adding features to the project without that change.
07:20 < undeath> no objections from me
07:21 < undeath> ubuntu xenial (16.04 lts) only has 3.5 too
07:21 < undeath> but damn, stop using ancient lts systems if you want to run new software
07:29 < waxwing> i mean they can keep using 0.6.2 also. seems reasonable.
07:30 < waxwing> old versions of JM even going a year or two back are still compatible until we change the messaging protocol.
07:30 < waxwing> but if that python version is deprecated in a few months, less of an argument to keep our new code compatible with it.
07:31 < undeath> yeah, pretty much the same story as for py2
07:47 < undeath> oh, travis integration in github is broken
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08:46 < belcher_> waxwing: what do you mean by merchants batching other payments to payjoins?
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08:55 < waxwing> belcher_, well, what you'd expect, but more detail: https://github.com/btcpayserver/btcpayserver-doc/blob/eaac676866a4d871eda5fd7752b91b88fdf849ff/Payjoin-spec.md#receivers-payment-batching-
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09:41 < zfk> Forgive my ignorance; aside from things like infinite brute-forcing, is a password-encrypted JM wallet .dat file able to be cracked/broken/decrypted. For example, if the file were stolen or stored on a public server or whatever, could the encryption be reversed or something .... Would someone without the password be able to obtain the private keys? What encryption is used in the JM wallet file?
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10:00 < waxwing> zfk, argon2 for password hashing and aes-cbc for the encryption of the master secret (seed) of the wallet. so no, if the password is strong.
10:00 < waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/jmclient/jmclient/storage.py
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10:40 < adlai> thank you waxwing for so often being helpful and friendly, and when you have a moment: how has your freenode experience been holding up in light of the speciesist slander during these plague days ?
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10:42 < waxwing> adlai, i don't know what you mean by speciesist?
10:43 < adlai> speciesism is the construct similar to racism, as implemented by the excessive goals of the world health organization that target specific businesses due to arbitrary taxonomic circumstance of the early twenty-first century
10:44  * adlai suspects that nobody in the 'first' world takes the WHO seriously, because they're trying to do so much at the same time
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10:46  * adlai is being slightly facetious and the offense is not intended towards correct epidemiological research
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11:02 < jm12345> Hi - I sent btc to a new address and now when I run display all it shows it as "used" but 0 balance. How do I fix this
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12:03 < undeath> jm12345: you mean you sent btc from an external source to a "external address" of your jm wallet?
13:01 < jm12345> yes
13:01 < undeath> you can try starting wallet-tool.py with --recoversync
13:01 < jm12345> That address shows "used" but shows 0 balance. 
13:01 < jm12345> Tried that didn't work
13:02 < jm12345> makes no sense how does it know it is used but not know the balance
13:02 < undeath> did jm possibly spend it already?
13:02 < undeath> have you checked on the blockchain?
13:03 < jm12345> wait maybe recoversync did work. It displayed the addresses afterwards with 0 balance but let me display again
13:03 < jm12345> ok it does seem to show the balance now - wierd
13:05 < jm12345> BTW belcher_ the relays listed on the github to use freenode over tor are not working - both of those relay rooms are empty and dont relay
13:05 < jm12345> any reason not to use something tor friendly - like oftc 
13:06 < undeath> AlexCato: relay test
13:08 < undeath> DSRelBot at least is here and should be working. forgot how the other bot is called
13:27 < jm12345> Bot might be here but it wasn't in the dark or agora rooms
13:30 < jm12345> If I am done with a wallet and delete it the addresses are still  registered in the bitcoin wallet right? Is there an easy way to clean that? Just delete the default wallet.dat or some other way?
13:31 < jm12345> to remove all traces of the JM data from the bitcoin client
13:31 < undeath> removing the wallet.dat and bitcoind logs should be enough
13:32 < undeath> and jm logs of course
13:44 < DSRelBot> [DS/AlexCato] jm12345] Bot might be here but it wasn't in the dark or agora rooms --> it was. When they still worked. Now it's on hackint and darkscience
13:45 < DSRelBot> [DS/AlexCato] and i'm always on darkscience, the bot is always here as well. Where did you check?
13:45 < undeath> github readme still lists agora
13:47 < DSRelBot> [DS/AlexCato] True, oversight. I'll PR
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16:01 < jm12345> I checked whatever was on github i think darkscience and agora
16:02 < jm12345> What is the hackint link
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16:31 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/zakx] probably a bot in an otherwise empty channel on hackint
16:31 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/zakx] (hi!)
16:42 < undeath> jm12345: there are at least two users on Darkscience, including the functioning relay. so you must have joined the wrong channel there :)
16:42 < undeath> hi zakx o/
16:43 < undeath> jm12345: you can find hackint server information at https://www.hackint.org/ channel is #joinmarket again
16:44 < undeath> AlexCato created a PR earlier, so the information will be updated and agora replaced with hackint in the readme
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21:37 < jm12345> Thanks
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 26 00:00:05 2020