--- Log opened Thu Jun 04 00:00:41 2020 00:46 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has joined #joinmarket 02:55 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:58 -!- Anduck [~Anduck@unaffiliated/anduck] has joined #joinmarket 02:59 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #joinmarket 03:05 -!- Annabelle57Funk [~Annabelle@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined #joinmarket 03:49 -!- Evanito [~Evanito@cpe-76-87-174-228.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45 -!- kristapsk [~KK@gateway/tor-sasl/kristapsk] has joined #joinmarket 05:36 -!- Annabelle57Funk [~Annabelle@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4a70f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4a70f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has 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joined #joinmarket 09:34 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 09:41 -!- asoltys [~root@s207-81-214-2.bc.hsia.telus.net] has joined #joinmarket 10:12 -!- xochon [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/xochon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12 -!- xochon [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/xochon] has joined #joinmarket 10:32 -!- EvanitoC [~Evanito@cpe-76-87-174-228.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #joinmarket 10:33 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has joined #joinmarket 10:36 -!- Evanito [~Evanito@cpe-76-87-174-228.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:46 -!- azizLIGHT [~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8-dev] 10:48 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qukwmkfqzbkwzmmr] has joined #joinmarket 11:31 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 12:17 -!- Terrence80Kuhn [~Terrence8@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:32 < waxwing> dropping this here in case anyone has a thought (e.g. knowing the poloniex situation in late 2017, because i'm not 100% sure): https://x0f.org/web/statuses/104286098069671372 12:33 < waxwing> so i've been spending time reading through the report a bit, it's a very interesting piece of detective work. i think the strong emphasis on unmixed change misses the mark, i think 2 factors are crucial: the reuse of a single deposit address for a large chunk of the funds, and the 'low liquidity environment' factor that they discuss. 12:33 < waxwing> i'd certainly recommend reading it. that latter 'low liquidity' point, while in some ways quite obvious, is also interesting in how much you can get out of leveraging it. 12:34 < waxwing> ofc the 'single deposit address as destination for a majority of funds going through a mixing strategy' is almost kind of death on its own, but, not quite, that's only half true it seems to me. 12:35 < waxwing> and another thought that occurred to me re: poloniex - weren't they allowing email only accounts at the time? or was that closed down in .. early 2017? i remember discussion about this, it was before it got bought out, i think 13:14 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/AlexCato] hm. only accessible by creating an account? is it worth those extra steps? 13:29 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/opal] test 13:29 < opal> ah cool 13:29 -!- opal [~wowaname@volatile/founder/wowaname] has left #joinmarket ["i'm never coming back"] 13:38 < belcher> AlexCato i managed to make an account using 10minutemail, might as well post the login here email = lyokqxksigodaqxqnu@ttirv.com password = Nwac49kNnbgUhbKtGNdvP16LhYV4DrQLptCARWf+nDc 13:40 < HackRelay> [hackint-irc/AlexCato] thanks, that worked! 13:45 -!- puddinpop [~puddinpop@unaffiliated/puddinpop] has joined #joinmarket 13:50 < belcher> do i read correct in the report that samourai's whirlpool has off-chain fees? 13:50 < belcher> Sybil resistance fee should be taken prior to mixing. Fees taken directly in a mix transaction result in deterministic links ("unmixed change"). Taking fees outside of the mix allows for an "ideal" CoinJoin with no reliable discernable history and provides the opportunity for free remixing. 13:51 < waxwing> belcher, are you missing quote marks there? i guess :) 13:51 < waxwing> i don't know, but i think, that yes they have off chain fees 13:51 < belcher> yes, there should be quotes around my last message 13:52 < belcher> thats cool 13:52 < waxwing> well afaik the key part of their model is all equal in all equal out join txs 13:52 < waxwing> so obv the devil in the detail is how that's prepared (and spent after) 14:51 < MaxSan> Poloniex did have a fixed deposit address 14:51 < MaxSan> fairly confident on that yes 15:06 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@81-175-144-89.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06 -!- rabidus [~rabidus@81-175-144-89.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #joinmarket 15:13 < waxwing> right it seems plausible. 15:14 -!- xochon [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/xochon] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14 < waxwing> further to that discussion is in Fig 14 'Post mix spends to different poloniex addreses *that initiate peel chain to address 16vBEU..*" .. which seems to muddy the waters further. are they saying the thief sent to other poloniex addresses that were then sent to 16vBEu? 15:14 -!- xochon [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/xochon] has joined #joinmarket 15:14 < waxwing> because obv it's important to distinguish between the case where that address in an internal consolidator inside Polo, and where it's an assigned address to a particular account. 15:15 < waxwing> unfortunately the analysis bookmark for Fig 14 is invalid. 15:15 -!- azizLIGHT [~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight] has joined #joinmarket 15:23 < waxwing> i don't think it's possible to trace their reasoning without that. at least not without a ton more effort. 15:31 < belcher> this "weakest link" attack is pretty interesting, it reminds me of the attack against enigma where a letter can never be encrypted to itself 15:32 < waxwing> right. i'm not yet entirely sure you can't do a lot of what they do anyway, without that, but it narrows their search space, and as they point out, the taker area has very low liquidity due to the size. 15:33 < waxwing> i mean as they point out, in the single case where it reduced a single tx anon set to 1, that 1 out got remixed anyway. 15:33 < waxwing> but that was like a 3 party coinjoin anyway. 15:35 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qukwmkfqzbkwzmmr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37 -!- MemeFarmer_ [sid414248@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bcsjcmilapcvvits] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37 -!- johnhmay [sid110431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpiekwedmlarrlct] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37 -!- schmidty [sid297174@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sxrueubhxjmfakcd] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37 -!- johnhmay [sid110431@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqmhynhnrpvgsfot] has joined #joinmarket 15:38 < waxwing> so that 'spends into other addresses in poloniex cluster' i mentioned above is a bit dubious. if the 16BvEU address is considered the thief's, then those others can't be. if it's asserted that he used multiple accounts then it gets a lot more unclear. 15:39 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgkuvfllwvgzlaee] has joined #joinmarket 15:41 -!- asymptotically [~asymptoti@gateway/tor-sasl/asymptotically] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41 < waxwing> (easiest place to see the summary of those destination addrs is the 'PostMix Spending Destnations' tab of the spreadsheet btw, given that the analysis bookmark is broken) 15:42 -!- MemeFarmer_ [sid414248@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lbxkeuoyqiclsgow] has joined #joinmarket 15:42 < waxwing> (btw those three other destination addresses to poloniex were all used on the same day, which is a pretty big time fingerprint) 15:42 -!- schmidty [sid297174@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nngxwkzqbkdnzwpw] has joined #joinmarket 16:37 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8] 17:08 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4a70f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4a70f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:22 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4a9e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 17:23 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4a9e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 17:38 -!- slivera [~slivera@103.231.88.28] has joined #joinmarket 17:55 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zgkuvfllwvgzlaee] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:59 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrdoayrsecvyudlt] has joined #joinmarket 18:25 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #joinmarket 18:25 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #joinmarket 21:35 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrdoayrsecvyudlt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:50 -!- nixbitcoin [~nixbitcoi@gateway/tor-sasl/nixbitcoin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53 -!- nixbitcoin [~nixbitcoi@gateway/tor-sasl/nixbitcoin] has joined #joinmarket --- Log closed Fri Jun 05 00:00:41 2020