--- Log opened Tue Jul 14 00:00:19 2020
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02:25 < waxwing> openoms, fwiw and from what i vaguely remember, the bug i mentioned above on test is related to this: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/scripts/sendpayment.py#L342-L343
02:26 < waxwing> when i'm running tests manually i don't care that much but it is profoundly unobvious so should be fixed, naturally
02:26 < waxwing> that 'startLogging' is the twisted logs, which are separate from our normal logging (so, we don't use it in 'prod'/mainnet)
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03:21 < openoms> waxwing: yes, indeed it only needed to press y when 'frozen'
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03:56 < MaxSan> is there any scripts i can run from anywhere to see what sort of sats that have been made by the maker?
04:01 < waxwing> MaxSan, it's in the yigen-statement.csv so any script can just read/poll that csv file
04:01 < waxwing> openoms, ok thanks. you can remove that startLogging call if it's annoying.
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04:59 < belcher_> MaxSan wallet-tool.py history
05:24 < MaxSan> I guess it doesnt take into account the sats ive spent by creating joins lol
05:25 < belcher_> it does
05:25 < belcher_> so `history` may show you a negative earning if you spent more than you earned on that wallet
05:27 < MaxSan> ahh cool
05:28 < MaxSan> tbh this is mostly recent activity im sure one i had running before i emptied anyway
05:28 < MaxSan> Making some interesting comparisons between this and lightning for profitability of providing liquidity
05:31 < MaxSan> my lightning node is more tuned for profit, this is more tuned for privacy... still not much either way. need to really massively increase people who tumble to see decent income I think
05:31 < MaxSan> interesting to see though :)
06:18 < waxwing> hmm do people like wasabi and others (bisq? emzy ping) set up hidden services for what they're doing (eg payjoin) with SSL enabled or not?
06:19 < waxwing> btw i got it working emzy .. tbh i just had to go with a different syntax/function calls in txtorcon which i found from reading code comments; i think it's just that the old syntax i was using is no longer correct.
06:19 < waxwing> still tor's lack of logging is really rather unpleasant whenever you have issues like that.
06:21 < belcher_> i wonder if they have default logs off, but you can turn them on
06:21 < belcher_> i remember reading tor are often concerned with someone using their software and later that hardware gets discovered, if the logs recorded what tor did then the user's privacy could be destroyed
06:22 < belcher_> im just musing, but that might be a reason why tor logs are off at least by default
06:22 < belcher_> it wouldnt be bad for us to do the same thing, isnt it that right now tumbler saves everything to a log file which could be discovered later (in the really extreme threat model of someone analying your hardware after the fact)
06:25 < waxwing> belcher_, yes i feel pretty sure that that's the reason. i'm less sure that they have the apparently sane "here's an option to switch it back on", from some things iv'e read in passing while debugging.
06:25 < waxwing> i mean if they do, then great. that's logical.
06:25 < waxwing> and yes our software could do with some work in this area.
06:36 < emzy> waxwing: Yes every Bisq client has it's own hiddenservice. So the p2p is working over it. The clients talk to eachother for the trading.
06:39 < emzy> waxwing: afaik there is no ssl involved. I think it is not needed for hidden services. No exit nodes are used.
06:41 < waxwing> emzy, right. i'm just hoping i can avoid bothering to configure it for our client-side (i.e. i'm hoping there will be no payjoin HS servers that require ssl)
06:42 < waxwing> never really thought about it, i guess it's both not logical and also inconvenient because of certificates .. maybe nobody ever does that?)
06:42 < waxwing> i guess for non-ephemeral HS maybe someone does?
06:44 < emzy> Hard to get an official ssl cert for a SH address. I think it makes no sense to have SSL on a HS.
06:45 < emzy> OK. Facebook has a SSL cert on https://www.facebookcorewwwi.onion/
06:46 < emzy> But I think they are the only exaptation.
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07:09 < fluffypony> emzy: aiui that was a special thing done for them for a very specific reason
07:09 < fluffypony> ie. their infrastructure is built on the assumption that it is served over HTTPS
07:09 < fluffypony> it was too much engineering lift to add exceptions in everywhere to allow it to be served over HTTP for Tor
07:10 < fluffypony> but beyond that very narrow use-case TLS on Tor is just dumb 
07:10 < coconutanna> emzy: NYT does it too. i don't think it's uncommon for commercial websites anymore.
07:10 < emzy> fluffypony: makes sense. And "DigiCert" will sign everythink as we know ;)
07:12 < emzy> coconutanna: not a security reason?
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07:32 < waxwing> i feel like at least one or two of our IRC servers we used had hiddenservices with ssl configured. e.g. darkscience? 
07:35 < waxwing> self signed certs tho, if so
08:07 < fluffypony> yeah self-signed, not signed by a CA
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11:10 < qubenix> TLS is useful with Tor when your tor daemon is remote (whonix). This encrypts the traffic from your application to tor.
11:16 < emzy> right. But  you also could run a tunnel (or ssh hportforward) to the remote server
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11:20 < qubenix> it's not always a remote server, with whonix it's a vm on the same host. but valid point.
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11:32 < fluffypony> qubenix: but in that case you'd be fine with self-signed coz you just validate the fingerprint once and then lock it in
11:37 < qubenix> sure, i was just throwing out there a use case for tls+tor.
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11:43 < waxwing> it does occur to me, whatever HS code i end up PR-ing (apart from the trivial in 638, which is purely there to test the client), i should remember that it can be reused for other things, such as some kind of mobile client or whatever.
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12:35 < waxwing> hmph just spent like an hour trying to debug why v3 onion serving didn't work until i saw in tor source that it wasn't supported in 0.3.2.10 yet which is the version Ubuntu1804 LTS seems to think i should have :(
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 15 00:00:21 2020