--- Log opened Thu Feb 04 00:00:35 2021 00:28 -!- StopAndDecrypt_ [~StopAndDe@67.213.221.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:58 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:58 -!- luke-jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #joinmarket 01:27 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29 -!- deafboy [quasselcor@cicolina.org] has joined #joinmarket 01:34 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:55 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #joinmarket 03:14 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #joinmarket 03:19 -!- Noah4Bednar [~Noah4Bedn@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has joined #joinmarket 03:52 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #joinmarket 04:19 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:23 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:23 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has joined #joinmarket 04:42 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Quit: jonatack] 04:43 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 04:48 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 05:56 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has joined #joinmarket 06:27 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 06:33 -!- davterra [uid458765@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emyvlrvgvpwonqxt] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:42 -!- davterra [592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166] has joined #joinmarket 06:59 -!- tralfaz [uid458765@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ognusrslerzpljxa] has joined #joinmarket 07:01 -!- davterra [592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 07:01 -!- davterra [592e72a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.89.46.114.166] has joined #joinmarket 07:06 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:07 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 07:09 -!- Noah4Bednar [~Noah4Bedn@static.57.1.216.95.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 07:20 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21 -!- technonerd [~techno@gateway/tor-sasl/technonerd] has joined #joinmarket 07:22 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:29 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31 -!- mryandao_ [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has joined #joinmarket 07:32 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@gateway/tor-sasl/mryandao] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:34 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 07:34 < technonerd> https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/ransomware-connections-maze-egregor-suncrypt-doppelpaymer 07:34 < technonerd> they seem to blur out all the good stuff :( 07:40 -!- jonatack_ [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:45 -!- jonatack [jon@gateway/vpn/airvpn/jonatack] has joined #joinmarket 08:50 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 08:54 < belcher> says page not found 08:54 < belcher> are you able to upload the pdf anywhere technonerd 08:58 < technonerd> i guess they deleted it 08:58 < technonerd> https://www.zdnet.com/article/blockchain-transactions-confirm-murky-and-interconnected-ransomware-scene/ 08:58 < technonerd> thats pretty much a copy and paste there 09:07 < belcher> do you have a copy in your history or anything? 09:07 < belcher> browser cache 09:08 < belcher> but yes chainalysis dont give a stuff about user privacy, thats been known for a while, what we can do about it is use privacy tech, behave in a way that improves privacy and avoid exchanges that can censor you and which spy on you 09:08 < belcher> this is a good time to shill this list of p2p exchanges again: https://github.com/cointastical/P2P-Trading-Exchanges/ 09:08 < belcher> technonerd ^ 09:09 < technonerd> i have it open in a tab let me find a addon to copy it 09:10 -!- tralfaz [uid458765@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ognusrslerzpljxa] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:11 < belcher> normally you can click somewhere "save a copy" or something 09:26 < technonerd> https://share.riseup.net/#jSouhqUjw-_0cdHqMSn67g 09:29 < belcher> ty 09:36 < technonerd> the blog appears to be back up now 09:55 < technonerd> just some minor webdev changes in my diffs, but i pointed wayback at it 10:54 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has joined #joinmarket 12:28 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxnjgopssqfvddxv] has joined #joinmarket 13:46 -!- mryandao_ is now known as mryandao 14:22 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-80-182-100-43.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35 -!- undeath [~undeath@hashcat/team/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.0] 16:40 -!- viasil [~nobody@95.174.67.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41 -!- viasil [~nobody@95.174.67.172] has joined #joinmarket 17:05 < Evanito[m]> Seeing these huge balances of tainted coins being sent through relatively low volume coinjoins is always funny to see 17:08 < Evanito[m]> What is the current status of the IRC channels that the bots use to communicate? 17:08 < Evanito[m]> They are easily the most centralized part of the software, have P2P solutions been considered (i.e. IPFS GossipSub?) 17:08 < Evanito[m]> I might be asking during the wrong active hours :/ 17:26 < belcher> how do you know the coins are tainted Evanito[m] ? 17:26 < belcher> the problem with pure p2p solutions is makers have an incentive against actually forwarding some messages, why would you forward a message belonging to your competitor 17:27 < belcher> so most likely any solution would be some kind of federated model where the communications is not hosted by makers 17:28 < Evanito[m]> Oh no proof or anything, but hearing the anecdotal stories about it. 17:28 < Evanito[m]> I think even waxwing made a blog post about how some tainted coins were running on joinmarket for a while as a provider before getting bored and clumsily spending the 90% of their unmixed coins they had left. It showed their hand and made me laugh that they got impatient with it. 17:29 < belcher> yes thats the gridchain case 17:29 < belcher> we know about that because the victim of that theft posted his bitcoin addresses on reddit asking for tracking help 17:30 < Evanito[m]> If you are interested in reading on IPFS GossipSub belcher (I'm a fanboy, I'll admit) it has a lot of writeups on how it handles hostile nodes. They even demonstrated the case where a node is singling out one other node by not forwarding its messages. 17:30 < Evanito[m]> LOL what a dumbass 17:30 < belcher> yeah ok do link them 17:31 < Evanito[m]> General overview: https://blog.ipfs.io/2020-05-20-gossipsub-v1.1/ 17:31 < Evanito[m]> Deep dive is linked on this page: https://blog.ipfs.io/gossipsubv1.1-eval-report-and-security-audit/ 17:32 < Evanito[m]> Drawbacks include needing high uptime as a peer as well as increased passive bandwidth usage. So not all upsides. 17:39 < belcher> i skimmed the paper a bit and couldnt figure it out straight away so ill ask you, if a maker is also a peer in this p2p network and receives a message from another maker advertising the other maker's coinjoin offers, why does our first maker relay that offer to the rest of the network? 17:40 < belcher> Evanito[m] ^ 17:47 < Evanito[m]> Are you asking on a protocol level or on the level of assuming each node is acting in its own self interest belcher 17:47 < belcher> well both 17:47 < belcher> i assume the main way to get this maker to relay is some kind of incentive? but it could be another way 17:49 < belcher> do you understand the problem? its a marketplace and makers would prefer it if other makers werent there, because they are competition 17:50 < Evanito[m]> Yes I see what you mean, luckily they also benefit if they know that other nodes are forwarding their messages. 17:50 < belcher> how do they know? 17:51 < Evanito[m]> Ah I suppose that requires reading the deep dive to understand, let me summarize 17:52 < Evanito[m]> If we assume we have "good" nodes and "selfish" nodes, then the protocol allows for the good nodes to find each other by noticing selfish behavior from other nodes. They tested it with something like 90% selfish nodes and the good nodes were still able to find and create a mesh with the other good nodes. 17:52 < Evanito[m]> The system they use for this is in the name, "Gossip" 17:53 < Evanito[m]> This is their iteration on FloodSub to lower bandwidth costs while maintaining optimal performance 17:54 < belcher> how do nodes find each other to start with? is there some kind of DNS seed 17:56 < Evanito[m]> Oh good question! The bootstrapping process uses the IPFS network which is a pre-existing P2P mesh that it simply joins a channel on 17:57 < Evanito[m]> Vulnerabilities during bootstrapping of the channel are also addressed in the deep dive. If the selfish control the network at bootstrap time (thus bypassing the gossip phase) then good nodes are still able to recover the network to a usable state without losing any messages. They have a full testing suite for the protocol, it's really quite neat 17:58 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 18:01 -!- belcher [~belcher@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:02 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4a892.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4a892.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:12 -!- HackRelay [~jmrelayha@p5de4a8b8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 18:17 -!- DSRelBot [~DSRelBot@p5de4a8b8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #joinmarket 21:47 -!- rdymac [uid31665@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxnjgopssqfvddxv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:50 -!- ghost43_ [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50 -!- ghost43 [~daer@gateway/tor-sasl/daer] has joined #joinmarket 23:58 -!- McViLLaN [~McViLLaN@unaffiliated/mcvillan] has joined #joinmarket --- Log closed Fri Feb 05 00:00:36 2021