--- Log opened Thu Jul 22 00:00:14 2021 00:01 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/k​ristapsk] tdfc99: If you want to stop mixing at mixdepth 4, you should look at yg-acyclic.py, which is a custom yield generator script that will do exactly that - will not mix coins at mixdepth 4. https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/custom-scripts (Re: So I deposit a decen...) 00:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] kristapsk: I don’t want that. 00:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] How many rounds is good for anonymity? 00:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] From mixdepth 0 to mixdepth 4? 00:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] Or more? (Re: If you want to stop ...) 00:08 -!- belcher_ is now known as belcher 00:14 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/k​ristapsk] tdfc99: The more, the better. It's not an absolute thing. (Re: I don’t want that. 00:14 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/k​ristapsk] ...) 00:27 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] Is there a way to calculate the anonymity? 00:27 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] For example from mixdepth 0 to mixdepth 2? 00:28 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] Or from mixdepth 0 to mixdepth 4? 01:46 -!- undeath [~undeath@user/undeath] has joined #joinmarket 03:11 < waxwing> i'm more lukewarm on that stuff than most people, but if other people want to pursue it that's cool. 03:11 < waxwing> https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/pull/331 was opened, i had some doubts, others could certainly push something like that through if they want. 03:12 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 03:12 < waxwing> i mean ok that's entropy not directly anon set 03:13 < belcher> which stuff? running a yield generator for privacy you mean 03:14 < waxwing> i meant the measure of anonymity set being quantified. sorry perhaps not clear in context. 03:14 < belcher> ah yes i agree 03:15 < belcher> anonymity is adversarial, so not something you can describe in numbers so easily 03:15 < belcher> imagine two armies, one with 500k troops the other with 2 million, yet the 500k army finds a little weak spot in the formation, and wins against the 2mm army (this kind of thing has happened many times in history) 03:16 < belcher> likewise with anonymity, you might calculate an anonymity set number of, say, 10k but then some kind of bug is discovered and it turns out your anonymity set taking the bug into account is just one 03:22 < waxwing> yes. good example of what Taleb called the "ludic fallacy" (although Taleb is a bit out of favour nowadays .. for good reason lol) 03:22 < waxwing> but again, not saying it's a useless idea, at all. just don't rely on it too much. 03:22 < belcher> yep agreed 03:24 < belcher> coming back to the running-yield-generator-for-privacy, one thing to consider is that yield generators never make sweep coinjoins, so a change output is always created (although its not always possible to link the inputs to the change) 03:24 < belcher> but even so a good idea might be to do a sweep-coinjoin sending your coins back to your own joinmarket wallet, and after that start yield generator 03:30 < waxwing> like a lot of things, it's unfairly favorable to the rich. if you have a lot of BTC you can earn non-negligible relfees, and after a reasonable number of joins you've already probably got enough in income to pay for a full tumbler run. 03:31 < waxwing> so that's one way of using a yg for privacy even if you ignored the main way, i.e. the maker side joins (cos everyone understands that the "letting the taker know the linkages" is more a problem in theory than in practice) 03:31 < belcher> yes, because theres many many different takers, and takers are likely to keep the linkage private because it helps them too 03:32 < belcher> and being a taker costs money so a sybil attacker is unlikely to be all those takers 03:59 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:20 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 04:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/G​] I can restore my JM wallet using the 12 seed words, correct? 04:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/G​] So I don't need to backup the wallet.jmdat files? 04:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/G​] What happens if the yieldgenerator is running and so my wallet file is locked and then my RaspiBlitz node crashes or gets stolen? Can I recover everything with the seed? 04:44 < belcher> yes you can 04:44 < belcher> only the seed is needed for backing up the money 04:54 < belcher> i just looked at the telegram chat and it seems the bot is just one way, they cant see what we say here 04:55 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/c​belcher] Yes you can, only the seed is needed plus the derivation path/address type (joinmarket wallets use the bip39 family of standards) 05:15 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/d​eflation] openoms: excuse belcher, that didnt forward in the other direction. the bridge is actually muted telegram side from openoms (Re: [Libera/belcher] i just looked at the telegram chat and it seems the bot is just one way, they cant see what we say here) (Re: ok, didn't remove th...) 05:38 < undeath> coming back to the running-yield-generator-for-privacy, one thing to consider is that yield generators never make sweep coinjoins 05:39 < undeath> that's not universally true. nothing stops someone from running a yg and using the same wallet to do sweep transactions 05:39 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] If the outputs are odd numbers in count, it is likely it was a sweep 05:39 < undeath> you might argue it's not happening as common for makers compared to takers. but then - is it? 05:49 < belcher> yeah thats what i mean, i think a good way forward is for someone intending to run a yield generator for privacy to first do a single sweep-coinjoin 06:23 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@user/gnusha] has joined #joinmarket 06:23 -!- Topic for #joinmarket: JoinMarket: Improving bitcoin privacy since 2015 | https://github.com/Joinmarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver | @joinmarket r/joinmarket | Logs: http://gnusha.org/joinmarket/ | Latest release 0.8.3 | Also on ncwkrwxpq2ikcngxq3dy2xctuheniggtqeibvgofixpzvrwpa77tozqd.onion:6667 06:23 -!- Topic set by waxwing [~waxwing@user/waxwing] [Fri Jun 18 12:59:23 2021] 06:23 [Users #joinmarket] 06:23 [@ChanServ ] [ BlueMatt] [ Evanito[m]] [ koolazer ] [ pigeons_ ] [ undeath] 06:23 [+JoinMarketRelay] [ BUSY ] [ ghost43 ] [ Lightsword ] [ qubenix ] [ unomie ] 06:23 [ achow101 ] [ dave_uy ] [ gnusha ] [ michaelfolkson ] [ shiza ] [ waxwing] 06:23 [ Anduck ] [ davterra] [ greypw ] [ Michail1 ] [ stevenroose] [ Xeha ] 06:23 [ avril ] [ deafboy ] [ jetpack ] [ nixbitcoindev[m]] [ stoner19 ] [ xyy ] 06:23 [ belcher ] [ DeanGuss] [ jungly ] [ nsh ] [ takinbo ] [ Zenton ] 06:23 [ berndj ] [ dodo ] [ k3tan ] [ openoms ] [ technonerd ] 06:23 [ blkncd ] [ emzy ] [ kanzure ] [ openoms[m] ] [ tiker[m] ] 06:23 -!- Irssi: #joinmarket: Total of 46 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 44 normal] 06:24 -!- Channel #joinmarket created Wed May 19 06:14:25 2021 06:26 -!- Irssi: Join to #joinmarket was synced in 150 secs 06:58 -!- undeath [~undeath@user/undeath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.1] 07:22 -!- davterra [~davterra@143.198.56.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22 -!- davterra [~davterra@143.198.56.186] has joined #joinmarket 07:39 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] deflation: would be happy to reinstate the bot if it doesn't quadruple the messages any more (Re: excuse belcher, that didnt forward in the other direction. the bridge is actually muted telegram side from openoms (Re: [Libera/belcher] i just looked at the telegram chat and it seems the bot is just one way, they cant see 07:39 <+JoinMarketRelay> what we say here)) 07:41 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/d​eflation] ok nice. yes, i noticed, there was an issue with the bouncer configuration in front of it. 07:41 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] deflation: so changes were made? (Re: ok nice. yes, i noticed, there was an issue with the bouncer configuration in front of it.) 07:44 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/d​eflation] yes and for testing bridged to myself in meantime, didn\t got duplicates since. 07:54 < openoms[m]> btw great discussion today about YG best practices: https://gnusha.org/joinmarket/2021-07-22.log 07:54 < openoms[m]> TLDR: run a sweeping coinjoin to oneself occasionally especially after the first deposits before getting the YG going 08:02 < belcher> id say just do it once soon after you've deposited the coins into the wallet but before you turn on yield generator 08:02 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] I have deposited coins from CB exchange into JM wallet then ran Maker. Was that a bad thing? 08:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/c​belcher] No it's not bad much 08:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [oftc/c​oinjoin] This way it should break kyc traces from the exchange path? 08:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] They are still in maker atm 08:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Before i used to, deposit to electrun then JM wallet for maker. Or to JM then did CJ to a new address 08:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/c​belcher] It's just that a sweep coinjoin means there is no change address 08:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Yea 08:06 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] So leaving a Change adress. Kinda leaves some trail crumbs i take it 08:06 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Vs a full sweep out 08:08 < belcher> sometimes the change address cant be found for certain, one paper from 2016 got the number that around 33% of joinmarket coinjoins they analyzed they couldnt group the inputs and change, see https://gist.github.com/chris-belcher/7e92810f07328fdfdef2ce444aad0968#appendix 08:09 < belcher> a lot has changed since 2016 though, maybe the figure is even better now (or worse), its hard to know, at least i dont know, so then doing a sweep coinjoin first is something that cant go wrong 08:11 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] So do a CJ sweep to a different mixdepth? Would that be the correct way? I guess doing a CJ sweep now isnt bad because fess are lower than 4 months ago 08:13 < belcher> the same mixdepth or a different mixdepth doesnt make any difference, because if you funded your joinmarket wallet from coinbase.com presumably you just have only a single UTXO in your wallet 08:14 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] Wouldnt there any possibiliies for allowance of more fee varity to get more equal changeamounts if 2 or more maker may could provide nearly same or same size utxos? thinking of 2 maker that participated into a earlier cj that now got same amount utxo each counterparty 08:14 < belcher> though if you have many UTXOs in your wallet from different sources you can use the "freeze" feature for coin control, so you only sweep the UTXOs that you want to and so avoid linking together UTXOs from different places 08:15 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] So you deposit in mixdepth 1 then you single CoinJoin in mixdepth 0 and then you start YG? 08:15 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] You sweep to starting mixdepth if I got it right for best practice 08:19 < belcher> btw, as well as my gist about improving the tumbler algorithm, the difficulty of grouping together inputs and change is also discussed in detail in this blog post in the section "Joinmarket Sudoku" https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/the-445-btc-gridchain-case/ 08:20 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] tdfc99: That was my throught to do (Re: So you deposit in mi...) 08:24 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [oftc/c​oinjoin] Https://github.com/AdamISZ/JMPrivacyAnalysis/blob/master/tumbler_privacy.md#mapping-closure-graphs-in-transactions 08:29 < belcher> the gridchain blog post even has helpful advice 08:29 < belcher> "Thus makers (who cannot sweep) have no guarantee of not having that specific ownership trace persist, for each of their 5 accounts (but not across them - the 5 accounts will not be connected on chain, at least not in a trivial way)." 08:29 < belcher> makers cannot sweep? that's where you're wrong kiddo 08:31 < belcher> the end of the blog post has a "Recommendations for users" section, so for those of you asking questions id really recommend reading at least that 08:41 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Guys, i’m following the instructions for the qtgui 08:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: what system are you running on? (Re: Guys, i’m following ...) 08:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] But when I try to download XMing from the site, i only get the XMing-fonts.exe and when I download this, it’s not actually a program 08:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Windows 08:43 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] There is a joinmarket-qt.exe 08:44 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: what system joinmarket is running on? is it the joininbox instructions? (Re: But when I try to do...) 08:44 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] R.O: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/releases/download/v0.8.3/JoinmarketQt-0.8.3.exe 08:45 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Yes 08:45 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: what system joinmarket is running on? (Re: Yes) 08:46 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Windows 08:47 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/d​eflation] is it duplicating messages again from telegram now? :D 08:48 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: sorry can't help you without more info. Are you using a raspiblitz or set up joininbox somewhere else? (Re: Windows) 08:49 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Oh like that. I’m using joininbox on raspiblitz yes 08:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: so look for xming, not xming-fonts to use that route (Re: But when I try to do...) 08:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] 08:51 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] like here: https://xming.en.softonic.com/ 08:51 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Yes well, that’s my question, when I press on that link and press on the download, i get the xming-fonts file and not xming 08:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] ahh bad link then. Really it is a very hacky way of using the gui and installing anything on windows is insecure 08:54 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] would suggest using the menu rather 08:55 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Ok, so what’s the tumbler then? I thought this had something to do with that 08:57 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] R.O: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/v0.8.3/docs/tumblerguide.md (Re: Ok, so what’s the tu...) 09:00 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Wow ok that’s a little over my head 09:00 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Thanks 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] there is the .exe for windows: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/releases/tag/v0.8.3 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] which you should really verify 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then set up Tor on Windows 😬 (https://www.keepitsimplebitcoin.com/how-to-install-tor/) 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] ther to your raspiblitz (CONNECT menu) 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] there is the .exe for windows: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/releases/tag/v0.8.3 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] which you should really verify 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then set up Tor on Windows 😬 (https://www.keepitsimplebitcoin.com/how-to-install-tor/) 09:03 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then connect to your raspiblitz (CONNECT menu) (edit) 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] there is the .exe for windows: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/releases/tag/v0.8.3 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] which you should really verify 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then set up Tor on Windows 😬 (https://www.keepitsimplebitcoin.com/how-to-install-tor/) 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then connect to bitcoin core on your desktop or on your raspiblitz (CONNECT menu) (edit) 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] there is the .exe for windows: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/releases/tag/v0.8.3 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] which you should really verify 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] then set up Tor on Windows 😬 (https://www.keepitsimplebitcoin.com/how-to-install-tor/) 09:04 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] set joinmarket to communicate to IRC over Tor 09:05 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] Windows is really a nightmare 09:11 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] on a Linux desktop you can just run one script: https://github.com/openoms/joininbox#install-joininbox 09:11 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] which sets up Bitcoin Core and joinMarket, connects over Tor and with an option to start a pruned full node in minutes. 09:11 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] You can just log in with the joinmarket user on the desktop and start using the QT-GUI straight away. 09:20 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] If you looking for windows xserveer other than xming i can recommend VcXsrv 09:22 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] great, is that something you tried? got a link maybe? (Re: [hackint/s​45rutz7e]...) 10:53 -!- openoms [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/openoms] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54 -!- openoms [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/openoms] has joined #joinmarket 11:07 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/S​ilver] openoms: It’s truly a great service to those willing to make efforts to better themselves. @openoms thank you for being helpful/patient/apt/available - your efforts are most valuable to many nyms (Re: I appreciate that yo...) 11:07 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has joined #joinmarket 11:09 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/m​00ninite] Tbh I’ve stopped listening to dispatches.. they’re too long 11:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/m​00ninite] I did enjoy one of the earlier ones discussing the different cj implementations tho 12:07 -!- openoms [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/openoms] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07 -!- openoms [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/openoms] has joined #joinmarket 12:08 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:50 -!- gene [~gene@gateway/tor-sasl/gene] has quit [Quit: gene] 13:16 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] I havent used the gui version or the qt from remote through local xserver yet. but if he needs run the jmqt gui on windows while it runs on other box, than VcXsrv this might worth a try, that xserver works at least and would even say easier than xming.. https://sourceforge.net/projects/vcxsrv/ 13:20 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/s45rutz7e] Not tried myself with JMQt but any other Qt apps worked fine through it. (raspberrys remote & local windows) just with export DISPLAY:0... 14:01 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] thanks, R.O worth a try (Re: [hackint/s​45rutz7e]...) 14:02 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/R​.O] Thanks 15:10 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 15:19 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@user/takinbo] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:20 -!- takinbo [~takinbo@user/takinbo] has joined #joinmarket 15:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] JSchuler99: what about -f (Re: yeah you always need...) 15:52 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] ThePresidents: that was fake / out-of-context news, right? this is just about the Travel Rule for custodial EU exchanges that nobody wants to use anyway? (Re: ) 15:52 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-47-187-229.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] it’s going to get more interesting once their pilot “succeeded” and they prevent their enslaved exchanges to send/receive funds to/from sovereign wallets 15:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] it’s going to get more interesting once their pilot “succeeded” and they prevent their enslaved exchanges from sending/receiving funds to/from sovereign wallets (edit) 15:54 -!- user__ [~davterra@c-73-221-225-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #joinmarket 15:55 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] you gotta look at these travel rule implementations, not sure if I shared it here … https://vaspbot.net/ … they’re putting another (bloated) network on top just to invade people’s privacy… perverts 15:56 -!- davterra [~davterra@143.198.56.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57 -!- davterra [~davterra@143.198.56.186] has joined #joinmarket 15:57 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] kristapsk: I think it could be an absolute thing. The problem is that JoinMarket doesn’t calculate the accumulated anon set for you. (Re: The more, the better...) 15:58 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] thus, people have to take guesses 15:59 -!- user__ [~davterra@c-73-221-225-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] frog6o: Whats real news anymore? I mean, the "powers" that be want to make it difficult for normies to use crypto so they will accept govt crypto. Its not the first rumors of EU, IMF, WEF etc wanting kyc at wallet level (Re: that was fake / out-...) 16:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] They know they cant stop btc or crypto, they just want to deter alot of normies 16:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] and we all know it’s going to be just as successful as the war on drugs 16:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] but idiots don’t know 16:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] and government attracts power hungry idiots 16:11 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] frog6o: Of course thats why they get elected (Re: but idiots don’t kno...) 16:12 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Thats why us CJ will soon charge a bigger fee to clean up TX history 16:12 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Once these dum ass rules cone out 16:12 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Call it "normie fee" 16:17 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] haha I think a bit higher would be fair given CJ makers provide an actual service to humanity and get paid way less than blood suckers 16:19 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] We shall be the new blood suckers, lol 16:19 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/T​hePresidents] Oh noez my btc tx history can be traced? Help me Makers. You're my only hope. 16:20 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] no man that’s the dark side capturing you. stay strong young padawan. 16:38 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] random Github “privacy” tip, not sure if widely known .. if you select “Custom” and check everything it has the same effect as clicking “All Activity”, but you’re not shown as a watcher : 17:10 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] x 17:11 -!- belcher_ [~belcher@user/belcher] has joined #joinmarket 17:15 -!- belcher [~belcher@user/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] @openoms There was a lot of discussion so not sure if it was already mentioned, but I guess it’s important so we can talk about it again ;-) …. (Re: [hackint/o​penoms[m]...) 19:39 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] cbelcher: what change are we talking about here? if we deposit new funds into a mixdepth that was already used int he past and has change in it? (Re: It's just that a swe...) 19:40 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] so we should sweep the mixdepth before starting the yg, every time we add new funds? or is this totally different? 19:42 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] someone help connect the dots pleaaase 19:49 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] na I read something about 1st time deposits. 19:51 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] is this about preventing a specific deposit UTXO from being associated with the maker longer term?! 19:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] by breaking the link between deposit UTXO and maker wallet? 19:57 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] if yes then ideally one would do this after every new deposit? 22:24 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] frog6o: no need? but alternating the Taker and Maker roles is the best. There is no hard recommendation. (Re: if yes then ideally ...) 22:24 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] frog6o: no need,but alternating the Taker and Maker roles is the best. There is no hard recommendation. (edit) (Re: if yes then ideally ...) 22:25 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] doing a sweeping coinjoin (meaning creating no change) would be the best after every deposit. 22:25 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] you can coinjoin only one utxo as well, no need sweep the whole mixdepth 22:46 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] openoms: so this is equivalent to sending the UTXO through wasabi/whirlpool before depositing it? (Re: you can coinjoin onl...) 22:48 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] well the anonset would be higher and I guess it would be more expensive 22:49 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] frog6o: both wasabi and whirlpool would create change due to fixed pools (Re: so this is equivalen...) 22:49 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] but I don’t have to deposit the change into JM 22:51 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] frog6o: you don't, but why not just use JM then? (Re: but I don’t have to ...) 22:51 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] this was a theoretical question. maybe I have wasabi mixed UTXOs somewhere that have no other use. 22:52 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] yeah, there is no identifiable source there to get rid of 22:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] I’m not sure if I get it yet (I should read the thing finally), but wouldn’t a wallet be contaminated if I ever deposited identifiable coins without coinjoining them after depositing? 22:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] all the mixdepths would contain some change probably 22:53 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] so unless I sweep all of them, it’s bad? 22:54 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] might make sense to start over with a new wallet? 22:54 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] no, it is not binary like that. 22:55 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/o​penoms] read this: https://joinmarket.me/blog/blog/the-445-btc-gridchain-case/ 22:55 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/f​rog6o] k. 23:40 -!- jungly [~jungly@host-79-19-8-177.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #joinmarket 23:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] I run raspiblitz over Tor. 23:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] When I start Yield Generator I can see my internet provider. 23:50 <+JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/Bridged] [telegram/t​dfc99] How can I avoid this? 23:58 < openoms[m]> what you mean by seeing your internet provider? Isn't it your network hostname? the raspiblitz setup communicates over Tor --- Log closed Fri Jul 23 00:00:15 2021