--- Log opened Tue Aug 31 00:00:54 2021
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06:34 < belcher> its been exactly one month since the fidelity bond update was released
06:35 < belcher> an external sybil attacker would have to lock up 128k btc for a year to successfully attack, thats 6.1 billion USD, mindboggling
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06:56 < waxwing> looks like i nabbed #1000 :)
06:57 < belcher> \o/
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07:32 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/kristapsk] waxwing, epic PR number (#1000) for an epic PR :)
07:33 < belcher> waxwing in PR #1000 what are directory nodes ? is that something well-known in LN, is there a link that explains it
07:47 < waxwing> belcher, no, i was borrowing the term from #415
07:47 < belcher> ahh
07:48 < waxwing> essentially it's the node that you get a list of other nodes from, and it also has to play the role of where you send pubmsgs (thought technically you could broadcast)
07:48 < belcher> got it
07:48 < belcher> so is a big-picture view of this design that its the #415 ideas but using LN's protocol and c-lightning's plugins
07:48 < waxwing> and further as explained in the PR comment, this is a kind of early version where we even are only sending privmsgs via it, although technically nodes will send peer to peer if they are directly connected, for now, they usually won't be.
07:49 < waxwing> it's mostly following the general idea of #415 for sure, but then .. there were a lot of ideas in there :)
07:49 < belcher> if even private messages are going via the directory servers, then its basically exactly the same as IRC but using LN's protocol instead of IRC's ?
07:49 < waxwing> that point is made in the PR comment :)
07:50 < belcher> ok
07:50 < waxwing> and also that it's just extra code hasn't been written yet. again, they *can* privmsg directly if they're connected, there just isn't any mechanism to bother to make connections, or to use hops, to forward messages.
07:50 < waxwing> the `sendonionmessage` RPC is designed to have you forward messages over hops with encryption. ironically we already kind of have this, it's just hub and spoke.
07:50 < waxwing> i.e. we have our end to end encryption already.
07:52 < waxwing> see here: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/3f8fa0ea8156eeabe40c2a62a3c3e38026dae31f/jmdaemon/jmdaemon/lnonion.py#L411-L417
07:52 < waxwing> we'll privmsg directly if we can.
07:53 < waxwing> i suppose it's more "MVP" than anything, albeit that term is a bit pretentious :) It's enough to make transactions work, so it can be tested.
07:57 < waxwing> my general thoughts on it are: unlike a couple of other things i tried years ago, i think this option will actually work, and be significantly superior to what we have now, and offer potential future upgrade paths to fancier incentive models. the limitation of having to have c-lightning isn't really too bad imo (you can run it w/out channels or wallet, for now).
07:58 < waxwing> but it's a ton of work to move it from "bare bones working" to "really good".
08:48 < waxwing> wait, does Lightning use 9735 for other networks than mainnet? or does it have a different port per chain like bitcoind?
09:15 < undeath> interesting idea with the c-lightning message channel! will take a look at the pr later
09:15 < undeath> but can we base it off #914? otherwise it's going to be a mess later
09:25 < belcher> if its the same model as IRC we have now, where does the improvements come from?
09:28 < undeath> oh, haven't looked at the code but i expected some new code in that area
09:28 < undeath> if there is not nvm
09:29 < belcher> there is new code, its based on a c-lightning plugin from what i see
09:30 < undeath> i meant new code for twisted receiver/responders
09:30 < belcher> ah
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10:53 < waxwing> undeath, re: 914 yes, we should be entirely decoupled from anything above jmdaemon.message_channel.MessageChannelCollection :)
10:54 < waxwing> in fact even message_channel.py itself has absolutely no changes iirc.
10:55 < waxwing> (the new twisted thing is only: "shove data from a hook in the c-lightning plugin over to our new message channel object". could be done other ways.)
11:30 < waxwing> tried one on signet with bots over Tor v3 onions, using the directory node i put in the PR: https://explorer.bc-2.jp/tx/533901e14c7f3ee7532485061d4b018675d67da39c6ab7cc363c152d7323c428
11:32 < waxwing> it's striking that initial connections can take from 2-10 seconds (that's very typical with onions i find), but the tx negotation, after accepting offers, is like 1-2 second max.
11:32 < waxwing> ok it'll be a bit longer with 10 parties instead of 2, but not much i bet.
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 01 00:00:54 2021