--- Log opened Mon Nov 08 00:00:26 2021
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05:53 < belcher> waxwing another thing to consider with your latest blog post, is that the privacy depends on LN's privacy which right now has a bunch of caveats for the receiver (which would be the makers)
06:15 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] I didn't say it bothers me, J55W2RWoArDhjMse, just curious about it. Are you guys chatting through joinmarket scripts or something?
06:28 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] is this a good place to ask some really stupid noob questions about joinmarket?
06:33 < openoms[m]> belcher other parts of the BOLT12 bolt12.org offers and path blinding cab help with exactly those issues you mentioned
06:34 < belcher> also one day hidden destinations
06:34 < belcher> rurururu yes you can ask joinmarket questions here
06:34 < openoms[m]> yes, that is part of the path blinding
06:35 < openoms[m]> "Blinded paths" excuse me
06:47 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] does tx_fees affect transactions that go though yield generator as a maker? or are they only used for own coinjoins?
07:04 < waxwing> only your own
07:16 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] and is there any other downside in setting a really low fee, like 1-2 sat/B except having to wait longer for it to complete?
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08:02 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Rurururu: no, but you can only start to be taker with utxos with >=5 confirmations. so for multiple tumble rounds it could took a bit longer to complete. a with sheduling thats no issues at all?
08:03 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] "cannot run on ln-messaging only" oh can they run side-by-side for redundancy
08:04 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Rurururu: basicly its fine, mining fees are low anyway atm
08:05 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Mining fee settings only apply to taker not maker/yieldgen
08:05 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] yeah, that's why i'm asking. 1 sat is usually enough to get anyuthing through within less than 24 hours
08:08 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Lets say you are a maker with 1 BTC. no comes you and CJ with it all coins only 1sat/vB and the transaction goes through 24 hours later. this maker could be unhappy to be only able to be part of 1 CJ a day ?
08:09 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] At times of higher fees, those could introduce some delays. but noone is in hurry with that CJs?
08:09 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Even than, just one would need to do a CPFP tx
08:10 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] can he limit and choose not to accept any takers if the fees are too low?
08:10 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Thats not implemented yet.
08:10 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] See github issue
08:11 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Taker dictates mining fees. maker got no choice.
08:13 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] so... the fees that takers set is used for the transactions that the makers do to move the coins between mixdepths and low fees lock their coins longer than necessary? that's it?
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08:14 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Thats an open issue - Proposal - minimum txfee rate for makers #721: https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/issues/721
08:15 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/rurururu] got it
08:20 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Yes
08:21 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Lowest fee conf is tx_fees = 1001
08:21 < JoinMarketRelay> [hackint/LySKU_`HWowAtTc[HFrjkWfup^zfyAZ] Fixed 1.001sat/vB (1sat/vB)
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08:55 < waxwing> belcher, openoms[m] yeah good points there. the short-channel-ids and node keys are a downer but, re: route blinding, just reading t-bast's PR now, cool idea. it's one of those 'tricks' that makes you think maybe there's just a better model than source-onion-routing in the first place.
08:59 < waxwing> in the extreme it'd be 'destination routing' i guess - which is likely logically incompatible with a passive receiver as in e.g. keysend
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10:49 < ademan[m]> are you referring to something different from "rendezvous routing" similar to how tor hidden services work? 
11:06 < waxwing> well i mean one extreme is source routing, like in LN now. the route blinding proposal has the receiver include an encrypted to-destination route with a fake receiving node in the information sent to sender
11:06 < waxwing> by 'at the extreme' i just meant you could push that last idea all the way to the sender
11:11 < waxwing> ademan[m], see proposals/route-blinding.md in the lightning-rfc repo; in the introduction it compares the idea to rendezvous routing
11:12 < waxwing> oh i mean in PR #765 it's not merged
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 09 00:00:27 2021