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11:55 < richardkiss> my understanding is that lightning addresses are going to be a function of a secret R
11:55 < richardkiss> but this means they are not reusable, so donation addresses won’t work
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11:57 < richardkiss> maybe instead of a preimage, we use a signature on R based on the recipient’s public key
11:58 < richardkiss> that way anyone can create invoice IDs, not just the recipient
11:58 < richardkiss> also, the recipient would not have to keep preimages around
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13:02 < rusty2> richardkiss: donations are a problem.  They're a problem in bitcoin, too, since address reuse is bad.
13:03 < rusty2> richardkiss: I guess the good news is that lightning addresses are not going to be a function of secret R, since that would make routing almost impossible (rediscovery for each new transaction).
13:04 < rusty2> richardkiss: but a scheme where you derive R from the lightning address (aka pubkey) is certainly interesting.
13:04  * rusty2 is pre-coffee, so might be missing something.
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13:59 < kanzure> 16:42 < kanzure> still confused about this; in person rusty said there was no malleability fix available, and that OP_CLTV and OP_RCLTV and OP_CSV were not enough, but here's a comment saying otherwise? https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3lo8mb/serious_question_for_blockstreamcom_will_you_let/cv8ej9p (not from rusty)
13:59 < kanzure> 19:45 < maaku> kanzure: rusty has a HTLC-based design that only needs the time-lock bips in order to have non-outsourceable lightning (lightning nodes need to be online 24/7)
13:59 < kanzure> 19:45 < maaku> i have not reviewed this yet
13:59 < kanzure> 19:46 < maaku> a more practical lightning that lets you outsource cheat detection and response requires bip 62 malleability fixes
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17:39 < rusty> kanzure, maaku: no, it needs bip62.  Outsourcing cheat detection needs full malleability fix, ie. normalized txids or equiv.
17:39 < rusty> brb
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