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08:07 < instagibbs> roasbeef, for 2-of-3, the text says that each hop must have this condition. Does this mean you'll have a 2-of-3 "subgraph" that you must send over?
08:10 < instagibbs> Hmm, maybe not. The HLTC is for multi-hop only, and can be created/resolved at any point with cooperation. So each point on the hop must support it, but nothing has to be done to "setup" these.
08:12 < instagibbs> However I'm unsure what "escrow" means in the context of routing payments. It either goes through or it times out? There is no "delivery".
08:15 < instagibbs> oh, continued reading: "All nodes along the
08:15 < instagibbs> path gets paid or refunded atomically, the same as a single-HTLC payment
08:15 < instagibbs> on Lightning."
08:15 < instagibbs> not sure how that jives with: "How it works: Require 2-of-3 R-value preimages (from 3 hashes) in order
08:15 < instagibbs> for the HTLC to be fulfilled. For each hop in the payment, it requires
08:15 < instagibbs> this 2-of-3 condition."
08:21 < aj> instagibbs: (i presume) the final guy how's meant to be getting paid reveals 2 of 3 secrets, which then allows everyone in the chain to reveal 2 of 3 secrets in turn
08:22 < aj> instagibbs: the final guy might only personally know one, and have to talk to an escrow person to get the second, but that only needs to be done once by the final recipient
08:22 < instagibbs> I see, re-reading it makes it clear they don't conflict. So yes, each hop will have to a priori agree on escrow for any escrow to work?
08:23 < aj> instagibbs: no, only the last hop cares about the escrow, everyone else just sees two secrets come in, and sends them straight out
08:23 < instagibbs> oh, got it. I should read more carefully.
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09:25 < JackH> is it correct to understand that lightning will allow for transportation of other units than Bitcoin? 
09:26 < maaku> Yes.
09:26 < JackH> that it could support non-bitcoin denominated transactions, yet settle on the bitcoin blockchain? in that case, I must have misunderstood something,
09:27 < JackH> but, is this going to work differently that for example: https://github.com/goblin/chronobit
09:27 < maaku> Yes it works just fine with other assets.
09:28 < JackH> but if I move USD, I still wont be able to settle those, unless I use Bitcoin the currency as a transport token, right?
09:29 < maaku> OK it has to be something settled on the block chain. I assumed you were talking about e.g. colored coins or native assets.
09:30 < maaku> A colored coin USD would work just fine.
09:30 < maaku> Or a native asset USD on a sidechain.
09:32 < JackH> but if I dont use the native currency, Bitcoin, then I still just use Lightning as a protocol/code/method, on top of my own insecure sidechain, and "all" I do is just to settle to Bitcoin, right? Meaning, I dont need to use Lightning, if I dont have to
09:34 < maaku> Lightning is not tied to bitcoin block chain. If you are using a side chain asset you aren't touching bitcoin block chain at all
09:35 < maaku> With colored coins you can do it without transferring any bitcoins at all (zero valued outputs)
09:36 < JackH> this answers my questions perfectly, thank you
09:38 < maaku> instagibbs aj  : BTW the miltisig HTLC allows participation of oracles executing arbitrary smart contracts
09:39 < aj> maaku: oh, come on. you're making that up
09:40 < maaku> ? No, works the same as the fed peg
09:40 < aj> maaku: "too good to be true" :)
09:42 < maaku> You setup a functionary to release the preimage when some condition is met or proof provided to it.
09:42 < maaku> GreenAddress like escrow multisig is a subset of that generalization
09:43 < maaku> You could probably even use threshold encryption of the preimage to extend it to a federation.
09:44 < instagibbs> Or Schnorr sigs, if you're being less fancy
09:44 < maaku> There's still a single point of failure in the thing that chooses the preimage and encrypts it ... Maybe you can MPC that.
09:45 < maaku> Or just put it in an HSM and avoid the moon math
09:46 < maaku> instagibbs you want a condition that no one functionary, or less than threshold subset knows the preimage secret and go rogue
09:47 < aj> maaku: (wait, "to the moon!" isn't referring to moon math?)
09:48 < maaku> We should totally co-opt that phrase
09:55 < instagibbs> Next scaling conference
09:56 < instagibbs> "To the Moon! (Math)" shirts
09:57 < aj> instagibbs: write it in greek?
09:58 < aj> στο φεγγάρι !
09:58 < instagibbs> I only know Easter sayings in Greek, and one cuss word. :(
09:58 < aj> instagibbs: google translate...
09:59 < aj> i think the only greek i know is some of the letters from maths classes...
10:01 < aj> oh, "μέχρι το φεγγάρι!" perhaps. it's all greek to me :(
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10:50 < instagibbs> Going with satoshi theme it could be japanese, but im not convinced there is a non-transliteration of that
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11:29 < aj> instagibbs: there's a few moon-related stanzas in http://oaks.nvg.org/basho.html that could work
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