--- Day changed Tue Aug 09 2016
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13:35 < maaku> rusty2: you just open a channel with you providing all the funds, right?
13:35 < rusty2> maaku: that works in theory, but then (1) you have one channel, and (2) it's with my cell phone.
13:35 -!- rusty2 is now known as rusty
13:36 < maaku> rusty: this seems like it is not a lightning-specific problem
13:37 < rusty> maaku: Well, people can provide STUN-style services to get around the connectivity issue.
13:38 < rusty>   But you'll still want other channels, and without putting bitcoin on-chain, you can send them to someone else to create a channel with you, but you have to trust them, or they have to trust you, or something in-between
13:38 < maaku> rusty: by "put bitcoin on-chain" do you mean send the person bitcoins?
13:38 < rusty> maaku: yes, old-school.
13:39 < rusty> maaku: which works, but I was wondering if there was a faster way.
13:39 < maaku> ok I'm dense. I see no difference between sending somone bitcoins and setting up a channel with them...
13:41 < rusty> maaku: if you set up a channel, you can send lightning payments.  And in this case we trust each other ("Hey, try this bitcoin thing!"), so we can set up a channel without waiting for confirms.
13:42 < rusty> maaku: sending on-chain then establishing channels requires two transactions.
13:43 < maaku> rusty: why is there trust in setting up the channel?
13:43 < rusty> maaku: there's trust if you *don't* wait for the funding tx to be buried.
13:48 < rusty> So, I got as far as "if we trust each other, I can simply set up a lightning channel with you instantly" but its not actually that useful except as a demo.  But maybe that's socially powerful so worth thinking about?
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14:14 < kanzure> "Blinded outsourcing of channel monitoring" https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2016-August/000565.html
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