--- Day changed Wed Feb 08 2017 00:08 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jooolslrmpwuykgn] has joined #lightning-dev 00:22 -!- HostFat__ [~HostFat@host234-246-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lightning-dev 00:25 -!- HostFat_ [~HostFat@host234-246-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:33 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 01:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:41 -!- Eliel [~jojkaart@104-250-47-212.rev.cloud.scaleway.com] has joined #lightning-dev 01:44 -!- pepesza- [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined #lightning-dev 01:46 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: roasbeef, Eliel_, pepesza, waxwing, adiabat 01:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: roasbeef 01:51 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #lightning-dev 01:52 -!- adiabat [~adiabat@67.205.158.84] has joined #lightning-dev 01:52 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@185.65.132.137] has joined #lightning-dev 01:52 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 02:25 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:52 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18 -!- mol [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lightning-dev 03:21 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:25 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #lightning-dev 04:54 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 04:55 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has joined #lightning-dev 05:08 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 05:43 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 06:14 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #lightning-dev 07:14 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 07:34 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has joined #lightning-dev 07:36 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 08:03 -githubby:#lightning-dev- [lightning] cdecker pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vD0G9 08:03 -githubby:#lightning-dev- lightning/master c7e6f19 Christian Decker: pytest: Chaning startup sentinel for bitcoind.... 08:03 -githubby:#lightning-dev- lightning/master b5c2d7d Christian Decker: pytest: Gossip subdaemon had a flaky test... 08:22 -!- gonzoucab [~gonzoucab@190.153.6.70] has quit [Quit: gonzoucab] 08:25 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 09:51 -!- akrmn [~akrmn@91.red-95-123-101.staticip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:03 -!- gonzoucab [~gonzoucab@190-38-153-241.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:10 -!- knocte [knocte@knocte.cloud.smuxi.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12 -!- knocte [knocte@knocte.cloud.smuxi.net] has joined #lightning-dev 10:14 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:28 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has joined #lightning-dev 10:31 -!- sidhujag [453a67aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.58.103.170] has joined #lightning-dev 10:33 < sidhujag> i have a question about LN... why are payment channels necessary, why not just use another p2p port on the same bitcoin service but relay directly to who you want to send funds to? You wouldnt need encryption, you wouldnt need to worry about routing 10:35 -!- jl2012 [uid133844@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtyuqvxchxwfrido] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jooolslrmpwuykgn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- trotski2000 [uid206086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqhhdloywvcxxvjs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- CodeShark [sid126576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gldqrqjajfgkqdrh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- zmanian_ [sid113594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltalvcyzdxuybtxe] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- wbnns [sid105317@21/bitcoin/binns] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- NicolasDorier [sid129442@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gosisbbvxbxovtuf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35 -!- jerseykx [sid110825@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dddceljkdyqyhask] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37 -!- emschwartz [sid151392@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gmilwhyfwvimxsqx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nopucefuxoylojer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48 < Eliel> sidhujag: that wouldn't help you avoid making an on-chain bitcoin transaction. 10:48 < Eliel> nor would that give you instant confirmation 10:50 -!- AmikoPay_CJP [~AmikoPay_@a83-163-77-195.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lightning-dev 10:51 < sidhujag> why not? whats the difference between that and a fresh payment channel between 2 parties? 10:51 < Eliel> sidhujag: you can't make a fresh payment channel without waiting for an on-chain transaction to confirm. 10:52 < sidhujag> eliel I understand that 10:52 < Eliel> the point in LN is to avoid on-chain transactions as much as possible. 10:53 < sidhujag> eliel hmm so the idea is to reuse open channels to be able to do instant confirmation without making funding transactions to multisig addresses? 10:54 < Eliel> yes 10:55 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #lightning-dev 10:55 < Eliel> Would someone happen to know what routing algorithm the current alpha implementations of lightning use? Is it flare or something else? 10:56 < sidhujag> Eliel ok interesting, yea I wouldn't want to wait 10 mins to pay for my coffee because a channel didn't exist between us.... so in order to find channels tha tcan be reused you'd need to find the channel through some routing mechanism... will it be done through the current btc p2p network or through some other form of ip routing tables running on servers in a mesh or something like DNS? 10:56 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:58 < sidhujag> also if you havent used a LN payment before for say 0.1 BTC ever before... and now your goods cost 0.1 wouldn tyou need to open up a new channel anyway because a channel between you and anyone else has never been opened for 0.1 btc? 10:58 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has joined #lightning-dev 11:00 < Eliel> sidhujag: If you only have a regular bitcoin-wallet, then the answer would be yes. However, if the wallet has LN support, it's possible that any money you receive is already in the form of a channel. 11:02 < sidhujag> so where would these channels be accessed from if user goes offline then his non-direct channels also go offline Eliel? 11:03 < Eliel> only online nodes can route payments. 11:03 < Eliel> I can't tell you much about the routing mechanism though. That's what I came to ask about myself. 11:03 < sidhujag> i dont see how wallet-to-wallet routine will work esp since most users will be mobile and mobile phones cannot be depended on since most of the time theyare in power saving mode 11:04 < sidhujag> so you'll end up with more onchain tx's than before 11:06 < Eliel> I don't expect mobile phones to be doing much routing. If you want to both route as well as use the channels from a mobile phone, you'll need to run a server somewhere and use the mobile as a client to that server. 11:06 < Eliel> however, if you just want to be able to pay and don't care about routing, then just the mobile is enough 11:07 < Eliel> It won't be sleeping when you want to pay. 11:07 < Eliel> or receive. 11:18 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 11:31 -!- wbnns [sid105317@21/bitcoin/binns] has joined #lightning-dev 11:33 < sidhujag> eliel you cant expect people to run servers for their mobile applications, people will end up resorting to centralized servers just because the routes are accessible that way to do offline payments 11:34 -!- jerseykx [sid110825@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uhauvxtnqmjidjss] has joined #lightning-dev 11:36 < Eliel> sidhujag: you only need a server if you want to route other people's payments. A mobile phone is perfectly good enough if you just want to pay and receive payments. 11:37 -!- zmanian_ [sid113594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cmowtusapalzaldh] has joined #lightning-dev 11:38 < Eliel> although, you can you use a mobile phone to route if you make sure it's reliably connected and powered so it can stay online 24/7. 11:40 < Eliel> doing that will improve your privacy, so I expect people will seek to do so at least some of the time. 11:40 < sidhujag> eliel what is the incentive to route others payments 11:41 < Eliel> ... I thought I already answered that. Primarily privacy enhancement but you can also charge fees for the routing. 11:42 < sidhujag> i see.. so a fee market ensues for routing 11:42 < Eliel> although, some people will likely offer negative fees to make sure they at least occasionally route something. 11:43 < sidhujag> yea at first 11:44 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvruvgnpjykftptl] has joined #lightning-dev 11:48 -!- jl2012 [uid133844@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yftydyaoevhvbirv] has joined #lightning-dev 11:51 -!- CodeShark [sid126576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipylveamsrbtxsqm] has joined #lightning-dev 11:55 -!- NicolasDorier [sid129442@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kmtqenrkunmssnld] has joined #lightning-dev 11:58 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 12:05 -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjwuluufeiymcfea] has joined #lightning-dev 12:10 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #lightning-dev 12:10 -!- emschwartz [sid151392@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iymfsjyupdzcbnpu] has joined #lightning-dev 12:21 -!- sidhujag [453a67aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.58.103.170] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:30 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdbikfyiuqswvexw] has joined #lightning-dev 12:51 -!- gonzoucab [~gonzoucab@190-38-153-241.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit [Quit: gonzoucab] 13:18 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #lightning-dev 13:19 -!- lclc [~lclc@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21 -!- AmikoPay_CJP [~AmikoPay_@a83-163-77-195.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 14:09 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:13 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has joined #lightning-dev 14:17 -lightningrfc:#lightning-dev- [lightning-rfc] Roasbeef closed pull request #102: BOLT 9: assign feature bits in pairs, give them names, clarify position. (master...feature-bit-numbering) https://git.io/vD8lA 14:19 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdbikfyiuqswvexw] has quit [Changing host] 14:19 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@unaffiliated/trotski2000] has joined #lightning-dev 14:19 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@unaffiliated/trotski2000] has quit [Changing host] 14:19 -!- trotski2000 [sid206086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdbikfyiuqswvexw] has joined #lightning-dev 14:42 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:43 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has joined #lightning-dev 15:02 -!- wraithm [~textual@205.197.160.100] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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