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[~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:05 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 09:12 -!- dabura667 [uid43070@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abjdybyfwwsdtvxv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:19 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #lightning-dev 09:31 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 09:33 -!- sstone [~sstone@3.46-14-84.ripe.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 09:49 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 10:27 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:55 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 11:16 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:02 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 12:02 < lmatteis> hi whatsup! 12:03 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 12:03 < lmatteis> was wondering whether there are any web lightning network wallet implementations. such that all the signing is done in a browser and transactions sent to the server 12:04 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 12:04 < lmatteis> sorry went offline :) 12:15 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lightning-dev 12:20 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 12:27 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: not that I know of, chjj started working on a pure JS impl like at the start of this year, but afaik he's not actively working on it 12:27 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: do you mean implemented purely in the browser, or a web wallet? 12:28 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: https://github.com/bcoin-org/plasma 12:42 -!- cfields_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has quit [Quit: cfields_] 12:43 -!- cfields [~quassel@unaffiliated/cfields] has joined #lightning-dev 12:47 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 12:51 < lmatteis> roasbeef: purely in the browser. so the keys and the signing all happens in the browser, and only non-sensitive info is sent to server, which would then broadcast to the network 12:52 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: if there's "send to server", then that isn't purely in the browser? 12:53 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53 < lmatteis> ah well, then i mean something where the server doesn't handle the keys 12:54 < lmatteis> i'm thinking that lightning can be more accessible via browsers at first - you'd get all platforms for free this way 12:54 < lmatteis> roasbeef: thanks this plasma seems to be just that 13:02 < lmatteis> roasbeef: unrelated but since you're online :) let's say that me and my friend have a channel open with Oracle. now i want to send money to my friend, but my friend is offline (doesn't have a node online). this can't work because he needs to reveal to me the value of his hashed data for the HTLC right? 13:03 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: possible for you to flag the HTLC is a "delayed" type, pre-pay the oracle on HTLC add (for the additional delay, or just add more fees), orcale stores till your fiend is online, once online reveals, or if never online the the HTLC will expire 13:05 < lmatteis> but i have to trust the oracle to not run away with my money right? 13:06 <+roasbeef> nope, they don't have the pre-image, if it expires they'll either cancel off-chain, or you go onchain to claim 13:07 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: have you peeped https://adiabat.github.io/dlc.pdf? 13:08 < lmatteis> sorry but i need the hash from my friend in order to send the HTLC to oracle, no? 13:08 < lmatteis> what if he's offline... 13:09 < lmatteis> nope :( 13:09 < lmatteis> sorry my understanding was that i needed at least the hash from my friend in order to construct the HTLC in the first place 13:17 < lmatteis> also, in a real world scenario where me and my friend are using Oracle's website to transact, it (i) appears that my friend needs to be online to give me the hash to be used in the HTLC and (ii) we need a way to communicate this hash which i guess can be done through the Oracle. but the main problem i see with this is that my friend needs to be online which may not be the case for several 13:17 < lmatteis> real-world usecases. 13:17 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:582:3700:c4ba:5e54:538b:df4f] has joined #lightning-dev 13:21 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 13:21 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:21 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 13:21 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:22 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 13:23 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:23 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #lightning-dev 13:24 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has joined #lightning-dev 13:36 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:06 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 14:29 <+roasbeef> lmatteis: yeh you need the hash, just as you'd need a regular bitcoin address 14:33 < lmatteis> roasbeef: in a real-world scenario, a food vendor on the street can currently have their bitcoin address printed on a QR code for people to scan and send money to after they purchase something 14:34 <+roasbeef> same can be done with LN payment requests 14:34 < lmatteis> with ligthning, you need to generate a new hash for every new customer, which probably requires them to have a tablet of some sort connected to the network 14:35 < lmatteis> them = street vendor 14:35 < lmatteis> i guess with bitcoin you also need to be on the network in order to verify that you've recieved the payment 14:37 <+roasbeef> not necessarily, there are way to do sponteanous payments over LN 14:43 < lmatteis> roasbeef: any links to how those function? 14:45 < cdecker> lmatteis, a stub is in the brainstorming wiki of the spec (https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/wiki/Brainstorming#spontaneous-payments) 14:45 < cdecker> Will still need to extend on those 14:56 -!- lmatteis_ [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lightning-dev 14:57 -!- lmatteis [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:59 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:582:3700:c4ba:5e54:538b:df4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:59 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.175.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:582:3700:c4ba:5e54:538b:df4f] has joined #lightning-dev 15:12 -!- JackH [~laptop@2a02:a210:582:3700:c4ba:5e54:538b:df4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19 -!- MaxSan [~one@109.232.227.133] has joined #lightning-dev 15:28 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 15:39 < mryandao> what does splice-in/splice-out re-anchoring mean in the lightning brainstorming docs? 15:41 < molz> lmatteis_, i just sent a payment without a hash invoice: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25279913/ 15:42 <+roasbeef> mryandao: you can make an on-chain paymetn from a channel (spice out), or add additional funds to a channel (splice in) dynamically and continue channel operation 16:28 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29 -!- jimpo [~jimpo@ec2-54-175-255-176.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lightning-dev 16:33 -!- MaxSan [~one@109.232.227.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42 -!- lmatteis_ [~lmatteis@93-48-153-111.ip258.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45 < betawaffle> hey roasbeef, i'm reading this new light client bip, it's really clever 16:45 < betawaffle> i may have some questions to make sure i understand it 16:47 <+roasbeef> betawaffle: ask awaaaaay 16:47 < betawaffle> so, the basic concept is you're very efficiently encoding sets of interesting things in each block 16:47 < betawaffle> correct? 16:48 < betawaffle> which clients can use to look for what they want 16:48 < betawaffle> rather than clients building basically a predicate which the node has to evaluate 16:57 < betawaffle> roasbeef: ^ (sorry, just in case you didn't see) 16:58 <+roasbeef> betawaffle: yep, so much less work intensive for the nodes, they're just slining blobs from nodes 16:58 <+roasbeef> rather than doing active work for each peer connected 16:58 <+roasbeef> and they can also fully serve these nodes w/o a mempool, whereas bip37 nodes at times depend on filtered `mempool` commands 16:59 <+roasbeef> it's also stateless, whereas with bip37 the node needs per-client state 16:59 < betawaffle> is the fancy encoding the reason it's feasible? seems like sending sets to clients is a much better idea anyway 16:59 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:00 <+roasbeef> the encoding makes it smaller, and is more effiecitn (space wise) that bloom filters 17:01 <+roasbeef> tradeoff is you can't dynamically update them like you do with bloom filters 17:01 <+roasbeef> but in our case, doesn't matter as you can't mutate a block 17:01 < betawaffle> how big are they? 17:03 <+roasbeef> betawaffle: avg size for historical chain was 6KB, median 1.7KB (for the regular filters which are all nodes need normally to sync) 17:04 <+roasbeef> since feb 2016 (at the time I posted to the ML), avg was 2.5KB median 24KB 17:05 <+roasbeef> max on mainnet so far is 64KB, depends on composition of block itself 17:05 < betawaffle> what are the sets comprised of? 17:05 < betawaffle> like, the actual contents 17:05 <+roasbeef> there's a csv of states in the OG ML post 17:06 <+roasbeef> regular is: each outpoint for txins, the data pushes in each txout's pkScript. extended is: witness stack items for each input, and txids of transactions in blocks 17:07 < betawaffle> cool beans 17:07 <+roasbeef> iirc it's like 21-22 bits per item witht he current params 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